What is sin and mans relation to God?

[Guest032516]

Originally Posted by OliviaHoward

I couldn't care less who people worship or how.It's their business.
For someone who couldn't care less, you sure spend a lot of time telling Christian what their religions are really about and what they are really supposed to believe.

I just want to be left out of it. I don't want the Christian Right in my bedroom. I don't want to be witnessed to. I don't Christian "values" legislated. It's not my business, but therefore who and what I worship is none of anybody elses. And I damn sure don't want to continually have to defend my religion against the aggressive Christian values and ideas.
Speaking of aggressive....

Oh, and all religious entities need to pay taxes - that pisses me off too. What doesn't?

OH spends most of her time giving atheists a bad name.

[JD Barleycorn]

I guess I need to drop my two cents in (which is actually worth less than two cents in metalurgical value). From what I've read God only had one rule in the Garden of Eden, "don't eat from the tree of knowledge". Everyone (Adam and Eve) knew the rule and broke it anyway. Was it fair to not know the penalty? What makes that fair? Do you need to know the penalty to decide whether or not you're going to break the rule? Is the punishment too great to offset the possible benefit of breaking the rule? Can I get away with breaking the rule (is God paying attention)? I think it seems pretty fair and God made the rules. I guess God could have made an out if you didn't like it.

As for the Christian idea of Heaven....what exactly is that? If you're thinking of clouds, harps, and wings then that is one version I guess but I don't think it is THE version. Heaven is supposed to be paradise so I guess there is sex or you're so thrilled that sex doesn't need to happen. Like a person who loves pizza. I mean they really love pizza and they find themselves some place that only serves pizza. After a while they may want some ice cream but it is not available. I guess we get bored but maybe in heaven we don't get bored but what happens if we get everything we want? I am reminded of the Twilight Zone where a criminal is shot by the police and wakes in a luxury suit. Everything is white and very grand. Sebastian Cabot shows up (dressed in white) and explains that THIS is his reward. He had great digs, great food, great women (two, three, or four at at time), cops are short and unarmed, and he always wins at gambling, ALWAYS. After a short amount of time he calls in Sebastian and says that this is not for him. Things are too easy. Sebastian says that this is what he wants and the criminal admits that he thought this what he wanted now he didn't know. The criminal said he wanted to leave Heaven and then came the boom. Who said that this was Heaven, this was his reward for the way he lived his life. It was really Hell.

[Guest050715-1]

Originally Posted by bojulay

Seems you need to check history, the only real difference in the different
bibles has to do with the old testament. Jewish scholars revised the
old testament leaving out the Apocrypha scriptures that were include
in the Septuagint. The Protestants used the revised Jewish scriptures
and the Catholics stuck with the Septuagint version.

Your different bibles are really different Jewish versions.

You did read what I wrote right?

Originally Posted by bojulay

Why did you leave England and America out of the mix.
They are considered Christian Nations and both fought
in world wars for supposedly God and Country, where
millions of Germans and Japanese were killed.

Another Christian killing spree by your logic.

Again, you did read what I wrote right? I said there were more people killed cy Christianity than in both World Wars. Stop twisting my words.

[WTF]

Originally Posted by Yssup Rider

So which god told us to go out and fuck each others, covet our neighbors spouse and engage in professional debauchery?

Who ever it was , that seems to be the one I obey the most!




Luke: Anybody here? Hey, Old Man. You home tonight? Can You spare a minute. It's about time we had a little talk. I know I'm a pretty evil fellow... killed people in the war and got drunk... and chewed up municipal property and the like. I know I got no call to ask for much... but even so, You've got to admit You ain't dealt me no cards in a long time. It's beginning to look like You got things fixed so I can't never win out. Inside, outside, all of them... rules and regulations and bosses. You made me like I am. Now just where am I supposed to fit in? Old Man, I gotta tell You. I started out pretty strong and fast. But it's beginning to get to me. When does it end? What do You got in mind for me? What do I do now? Right. All right.
[Gets on knees, closes eyes and begins to pray]
Luke: . On my knees, asking.
[Peeks up with one eye, waits. Then opens eyes and crosses arms]
Luke: . Yeah, that's what I thought. I guess I'm pretty tough to deal with, huh? A hard case.
[Clicks tongue]
Luke: . Yeah. I guess I gotta find my own way.
[Headlights shine through windows, backs up]
Dragline: Luke?
Luke: [Shakes head and smiles] Is that Your answer, Old Man? I guess You're a hard case, too.

[essence]

Sounds convincing to me.

Genesis 1:28 God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it.

Genesis 9:1 Then God blessed Noah and his sons, saying to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the earth.

Genesis 35:11 And God said to him, "I am God Almighty; be fruitful and increase in number.

Song of songs 2:8

8Listen! My lover! Look! Here he comes, leaping across the mountains, bounding over the hills. 9My lover is like a gazelle or a young stag. Look! There he stands behind our wall, gazing through the windows, peering through the lattice. 10My lover spoke and said to me, "Arise, my darling, my beautiful one, and come with me. 11See! The winter is past; the rains are over and gone. 12Flowers appear on the earth; the season of singing has come, the cooing of doves is heard in our land. 13The fig tree forms its early fruit; the blossoming vines spread their fragrance. Arise, come, my darling; my beautiful one, come with me." 14My dove in the clefts of the rock, in the hiding places on the mountainside, show me your face, let me hear your voice; for your voice is sweet, and your face is lovely.

Song of songs 4:1-16

1How beautiful you are, my darling! Oh, how beautiful! Your eyes behind your veil are doves. Your hair is like a flock of goats descending from Mount Gilead. 2Your teeth are like a flock of sheep just shorn, coming up from the washing. Each has its twin; not one of them is alone. 3Your lips are like a scarlet ribbon; your mouth is lovely. Your temples behind your veil are like the halves of a pomegranate. 4Your neck is like the tower of David, built with elegance ; on it hang a thousand shields, all of them shields of warriors. 5Your two breasts are like two fawns, like twin fawns of a gazelle that browse among the lilies. 6Until the day breaks and the shadows flee, I will go to the mountain of myrrh and to the hill of incense. 7All beautiful you are, my darling; there is no flaw in you. 8Come with me from Lebanon, my bride, come with me from Lebanon. Descend from the crest of Amana, from the top of Senir, the summit of Hermon, from the lions' dens and the mountain haunts of the leopards. 9You have stolen my heart, my sister, my bride; you have stolen my heart with one glance of your eyes, with one jewel of your necklace. 10How delightful is your love, my sister, my bride! How much more pleasing is your love than wine, and the fragrance of your perfume than any spice! 11Your lips drop sweetness as the honeycomb, my bride; milk and honey are under your tongue. The fragrance of your garments is like that of Lebanon. 12You are a garden locked up, my sister, my bride; you are a spring enclosed, a sealed fountain. 13Your plants are an orchard of pomegranates with choice fruits, with henna and nard, 14nard and saffron, calamus and cinnamon, with every kind of incense tree, with myrrh and aloes and all the finest spices. 15You are a garden fountain, a well of flowing water streaming down from Lebanon. 16Awake, north wind, and come, south wind! Blow on my garden, that its fragrance may spread abroad. Let my lover come into his garden and taste its choice fruits.


1 Corinthians 7 each man should have sexual relations with his own wife, and each woman with her own husband. 3 The husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise the wife to her husband. Do not deprive each other. If anyone is worried that he might not be acting honorably toward the virgin he is engaged to, and if his passions are too strong[b] and he feels he ought to marry, he should do as he wants. He is not sinning. They should get married. he who marries the virgin does right,

[Yssup Rider]

Originally Posted by WTF

Who ever it was , that seems to be the one I obey the most!




Luke: Anybody here? Hey, Old Man. You home tonight? Can You spare a minute. It's about time we had a little talk. I know I'm a pretty evil fellow... killed people in the war and got drunk... and chewed up municipal property and the like. I know I got no call to ask for much... but even so, You've got to admit You ain't dealt me no cards in a long time. It's beginning to look like You got things fixed so I can't never win out. Inside, outside, all of them... rules and regulations and bosses. You made me like I am. Now just where am I supposed to fit in? Old Man, I gotta tell You. I started out pretty strong and fast. But it's beginning to get to me. When does it end? What do You got in mind for me? What do I do now? Right. All right.
[Gets on knees, closes eyes and begins to pray]
Luke: . On my knees, asking.
[Peeks up with one eye, waits. Then opens eyes and crosses arms]
Luke: . Yeah, that's what I thought. I guess I'm pretty tough to deal with, huh? A hard case.
[Clicks tongue]
Luke: . Yeah. I guess I gotta find my own way.
[Headlights shine through windows, backs up]
Dragline: Luke?
Luke: [Shakes head and smiles] Is that Your answer, Old Man? I guess You're a hard case, too.

LMAO! +1

Amen!

[I B Hankering]

Originally Posted by OliviaHoward

Yes, the Niceen Creed. They took a vote that declared Jesus a God. Arian and his followers lost and were summarily executed. Yes, you are correct. Arius did die under “mysterious” circumstances, but that was ten years after he was exiled from the empire. And, yes, the Arians were persecuted by the Catholic. But first and foremost, the Arians were still “Christian”, so the murder and mayhem was Christian on Christian. Plus, where they were dominant, the Arians persecuted the Catholic.

Arius was from Alexandria, Egypt, but – and here is a fascinating thing I learned because of this exchange – the Roman Emperors Constantius II (337–361) and Valens (364–378) subscribed to Arianism, and many of the latter adherents to Arius beliefs were principally Germanic! They were the Goths and the Vandals!

Alaric, who sacked Rome in 410, was an Arian Christian. Odoacer, who deposed the last Western Roman Emperor in 476, was an Arian Christian. So the “summary executions” involved centuries of warfare and battles which the Romans and Byzantines often lost. Eventually the Catholic won, and the Arians in Carthage and in Spain were eventually coerced to convert to Catholicism. The last vestiges of Arianism in Spain and North Africa succumbed to Islamic jihad between the 7th and 9th centuries.

The Romans traditionally had incorporated others' Gods into their own religious system, but not Christianity. Part of it was political, part of it was they needed scapegoats, and part of it was that they saw it as a danger.

Constantine took Christianity as his religion as a political move and only as he was dieing. He ruled as a Roman Emperor observing the Roman Gods. His conversion, according to historians, was heartfelt and genuine: not political opportunism.

Constantine had a co-Emperor (I can't remember his name.) in the West, and he moved his capital to New Rome. He eventually defeated his co-Emperor,, but the split was underway. During the last decade of his life, Constantine was a Christian, and he ruled as sole emperor over a unified Roman Empire.

That's one way of looking at it. Another is that Christians were doing as Saul and the Church demanded - Spreading the word and converting souls. Well that and the Orient had some mighty fine treasure and some choice real estate. No. It's a simple matter to verify historically. Islam began its onslaught against Christian domains in the 7th century, and the Crusades were the Christian response to those attacks.

The Inquisition wasn't just the Spanish Inquisition. Millions of people have been killed in the name of Christianity. Mary of England burned almost 300 people. How many women were tortured to death or burned behind "witch craft"? Please. This number is ridiculously low even if you take out the Crusades. Read Henry Kamen (or at wiki), those are the numbers Kamen ascribes to the Spanish Inquisition. There were other Inquisitions, but those Inquisitions were short lived and their numbers are even lower than those ascribed to the Spanish Inquisition and cumulatively insignificant and far less than the seven million the Japanese killed during WWII.

I didn't say it was ok to kill Christians back. Actually the circumstances are vice versa, and that, nevertheless, is what happens in the real world. I said I'm not Christian and explained why and some of Christianity's history to the uninformed. Not arguing with about whether or why you are or are not a Christian, but you insist on measuring Christian transgressions without a proper yard stick.

For example, there is no doubt you are a very good person; especially when you measure yourself against the likes of a Charles Manson. And while Charles Manson is despicable, you cannot validly claim his cumulative crimes are worse than Hitler’s cummulative crimes. Consider now, if you will, how would you measure-up against Mother Teresa and her ministrations among India’s poor?

As you can see, the yard stick you use to measure makes all the difference in the world.

The same holds true when you consider Christian transgressions. If you stack one transgression on top of another and measure them with your 'altruistic' yard stick, it's easy to find fault. If, however, you measure Christian transgressions against those of real world contemporaries, you'll find that while they're still not perfect, they're far less odious within the context of real world events and circumstances.

I'm not down with the other Desert God Allah either. I don't recall endorsing Him at all. What does the plague have to do with Christian history and brutality? Context! An Islamic army used the plague as a weapon against Christians, it's contextually relevant. When you argue without context you are like, for extant historical comparison purpose only, Iran's "Screaming Mary" who berated the American hostages for the U.S.' dropping the A-Bomb on the Japanese during WWII. "Screaming Mary" had never heard of Nanking, Unit 731, Pearl Harbor or Bataan. She made judgments that didn't have context or perspective!

Originally Posted by Yssup Rider

So this IS a meta-discussion irrelevant to the subject of the thread. You've hijacked it, in other words. No biggie. I wouldn't be surprised if you've done that to your own threads.

BTW -- I never claimed that "WWI and WWII were wars perpetrated under the banner of 'Christianity'" as you so eloquently put it.

I was interested in why you've taken this topic and turned it into a shitfight with OH. Over what? Your innate intolerance of anything non-Christian? Sounds like a personal spiritual issue. I guess you don't have anything to say about SIN.

And frankly, you've mentioned my penis non stop for a long time now, "dude." I'm beginning to wonder why you'd care so much about it.

Maybe you ought to get together with Barleyswine and together maybe you can get over your fixation on it. You both are beginning to frighten me. LMAO! (But really, you guys are getting kinda creepy!)

ASSUP HAS NO DICK! (of his own)

Weirdos!

Back to the topic?

You don't understand, Assup the jackass, because you are a golem: a brainless amalgamation of animated piss and shit. Neither of your ignorant-ass posts have been on “topic” and both of your posts are attempts by you to perpetuate a "shit-fight", you turd-tongued, hypocritical, puny-pricked-putz.

[Yssup Rider]

Originally Posted by I B Hankering

You don't understand, Assup the jackass, because you are a golem: a brainless amalgamation of animated piss and shit. Neither of your ignorant-ass posts have been on “topic” and both of your posts are attempts by you to perpetuate a "shit-fight", you turd-tongued, hypocritical, puny-pricked-putz.

Still fixated on my junk, eh? You're a naughty little boy.

PULL EM UP!

[I B Hankering]

Originally Posted by Yssup Rider

Still fixated on my junk, eh? You're a naughty little boy.

PULL EM UP!

Assup the jackass, you are a golem: a brainless amalgamation of animated piss and shit -- someone else's refuse; hence, nothing but "junk".

[Yssup Rider]

Lets see, what should I say about that, Poopshorts?

PULL EM UP, SON.

[I B Hankering]

Originally Posted by Yssup Rider

Lets see, what should I say about that, Poopshorts?

PULL EM UP, SON.

Turd-tongued golems like you should wear such apparel over your turd-brown head, Assup the jackass. You're a brainless amalgamation of animated piss and shit.

[Yssup Rider]

Your retorts aren't getting any more interesting, Poopshorts. Just rehashed piss and shit.

I guess your Daddy never taught you how to use the Toidy! Shame on him. Maybe that's just something that's been passed down from generation to generation in your clan.

Your issue.

Yawn...

Meanwhile, PULL EM UP SON!

[I B Hankering]

Originally Posted by Yssup Rider

Your retorts aren't getting any more interesting, Poopshorts. Just rehashed piss and shit.

I guess your Daddy never taught you how to use the Toidy! Shame on him. Maybe that's just something that's been passed down from generation to generation in your clan.

Your issue.

Yawn...

Meanwhile, PULL EM UP SON!

Your trailer park donors sired you in a cesspool, Assup the jackass. You remain an ignorant golem: nothing more than an amalgamation of animated shit and piss, Assup the jackass.

[Yssup Rider]

Originally Posted by I B Hankering

Your trailer park donors sired you in a cesspool, Assup the jackass. You remain an ignorant golem: nothing more than an amalgamation of animated shit and piss, Assup the jackass.

Naw... That's no better Poopshorts. You don't seem able to express yourself without effluence.

A definite effect of TTT (toilet training trauma!)

You know the rest Poopshorts...

[I B Hankering]

Originally Posted by Yssup Rider

Naw... That's no better Poopshorts. You don't seem able to express yourself without effluence.

A definite effect of TTT (toilet training trauma!)

You know the rest Poopshorts...

You are completely unable to appear as anything but EFFLUENCE, Assup the jackass: an amalgamation of animated shit and piss sired in a trailer park cesspool. You remain an ignorant, turd-tongued golem, Assup the jackass.