Most Americans want War with ISIS.

[i'va biggen]

Originally Posted by Jackie S

There was no draft "lottery" until 1969. Before that, you were simply "1-A", and odds were pretty good you would get drafted.

I know several guys that went and enlisted when they were sure they were going to get drafted. They actually believed that old bullshit the Army told them about....."enlist, take that 3d year, and you will get treated much better and have a much better chance of staying out of 'Nam.

Yeh, and I won't come in your mouth, either.

We draftees had a service number that started with US, instead of RA. And as time went on, we grew proud of it. I particularilly liked it when I made E-5. Just knowing you weren't even20 years old, a draftee, and an NCO just pissed all the old "Lifers" off to no end.

How many of you fellow draftees got the "six for six" speech as your time got short. That meant if you would re-enlist for 6 years, (go RA), they would give a $6000 bonus, plus a bump in grade to E-6 within a year. A lot of guys didn't read the fine print. That also made you eligible for another tour in Vietnam.

In my age group, those that were 18 to 21 between 1965 and 1969, you could get a deferment for marriage or being a full time student in college, as well as any medical condition that the Military felt like disqualified you from serving.If I remember correctly, the Lottery was instituted so as to make the system seem more "fair".

How "fair" it was probably depended on how high, or low, your number was.

I was already out when the Lottery came into being, but my younger brother was in it. His number never came up.

Had a US number had a six year obligation, was up for E5, but they would not promote unless you re-uped. You could also join a NG unit to stay out of Nam.

[CuteOldGuy]

Originally Posted by Yssup Rider

What year did you draw Number 12 Whiny?

I suspect that's a lie based on other things you've posted over the years. And, if you are as anti-war as you've also posted in the past, why did you try to enlist ito fight most unpopular war in US History? Could it be because you were 14?

And ... Nice meltdown, hero!

I suppose you'll hide in your bunker now, Mr. Gu-u-ump!

I was young. I believed the "Domino Effect", that if we didn't stop the Communists in Vietnam Nam they would continue on to Australia and we'd have a much bigger problem. And I thought it would be exciting, and I'd get to travel. All the recruiter bullshit. It wasn't long after that when I got involved with the McGovern campaign and my views changed toward the war. But to this day, I regret that I couldn't get in. I can't explain that, but I still wish I'd been accepted.

[LexusLover]

Originally Posted by i'va biggen

You could also join a NG unit to stay out of Nam.

That was not a "lock" ... "National Guard: 6,140 served; 101 died."

BTW: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1076006/posts

Indiana Rangers (Company D, 151st Infantry Air Guard) is often cited as one of the most (even the most) highly decorated units to have served in Vietnam.

.......

Indiana Army National Guard

Indiana Air Guard units were mobilized and served during the Korean War of the early 1950s and the Berlin Crisis of the early 1960s.

Company D (Ranger), 151 st Infantry was mobilized during the Vietnam War and earned distinction as one of the most highly decorated combat units of the war.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...my/arng-in.htm

1st Battalion, 151st Infantry Regiment "Warhawks"

"Four members of Company D made the supreme sacrifice on Ranger missions, with two additional deaths resulting from a helicopter crash. Indiana Rangers were decorated 538 times in Vietnam. 19 Silver Stars, 1 Soldiers Medal, 123 Bronze Stars (88 with "V" device for valor), 101 Purple Hearts,111 Air Medals and 183 Army Commendation Medals (29 with "V" device for valor) were awarded for valor and achievement. No other single Army Infantry company was as decorated during a one-year period of time as the Indiana Rangers."

http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...my/1-151in.htm

And before anyone hurts their chest from beating it too much ....

http://www.nationalvietnamveteransfo...statistics.htm

"As of the current Census taken during August, 2000, the surviving U.S. Vietnam Veteran population estimate is: 1,002,511. This is hard to believe, losing nearly 711,000 between '95 and '00. That's 390 per day.

"During this Census count (2,000), the number of Americans falsely claiming to have served in-country is: 13,853,027.

"By this census (2,000), FOUR OUT OF FIVE WHO CLAIM TO BE Vietnam vets are not."

[Jackie S]

Originally Posted by i'va biggen

Had a US number had a six year obligation, was up for E5, but they would not promote unless you re-uped. You could also join a NG unit to stay out of Nam.

The 6 year obligation was really a joke. Upon returning home, they sent you a packet with all of your info to report to your "ready reserve" unit for a two year span. Then you were to enter the "standby reserve" for two years. After that, you finally got your DD-214/honorable discharge.

I never went to any of it. I simply ignored them. After the 4 years were up, I received a nice letter thanking me for my military service and my Honorable Discharge.

I suspect a lot of guys did the same thing. It had already got to the point in our Country's history, (1970 and on), where nobody gave a shit any more.

[Jackie S]

Originally Posted by LexusLover

That was not a "lock" ... "National Guard: 6,140 served; 101 died."

BTW: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1076006/posts

Indiana Rangers (Company D, 151st Infantry Air Guard) is often cited as one of the most (even the most) highly decorated units to have served in Vietnam.

.......

Indiana Army National Guard

Indiana Air Guard units were mobilized and served during the Korean War of the early 1950s and the Berlin Crisis of the early 1960s.

Company D (Ranger), 151 st Infantry was mobilized during the Vietnam War and earned distinction as one of the most highly decorated combat units of the war.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...my/arng-in.htm

1st Battalion, 151st Infantry Regiment "Warhawks"

"Four members of Company D made the supreme sacrifice on Ranger missions, with two additional deaths resulting from a helicopter crash. Indiana Rangers were decorated 538 times in Vietnam. 19 Silver Stars, 1 Soldiers Medal, 123 Bronze Stars (88 with "V" device for valor), 101 Purple Hearts,111 Air Medals and 183 Army Commendation Medals (29 with "V" device for valor) were awarded for valor and achievement. No other single Army Infantry company was as decorated during a one-year period of time as the Indiana Rangers."

http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...my/1-151in.htm

And before anyone hurts their chest from beating it too much ....

http://www.nationalvietnamveteransfo...statistics.htm

"As of the current Census taken during August, 2000, the surviving U.S. Vietnam Veteran population estimate is: 1,002,511. This is hard to believe, losing nearly 711,000 between '95 and '00. That's 390 per day.

"During this Census count (2,000), the number of Americans falsely claiming to have served in-country is: 13,853,027.

"By this census (2,000), FOUR OUT OF FIVE WHO CLAIM TO BE Vietnam vets are not."

It is amazing when compared to the overall population, how few men actually served in the Military, much less were in a hostile zone.

Another shocking statistic from that link is out of all of the wounded, less than half actually were in a Hospital.

There was always the old joke of the clerk getting the Purple Heart for a paper cut. I doubt it ever got that bad.

John Kerry is probably the most notable receiver of Purple Hearts awarded for wounds that seemed rather minor. No lost duty time??

Every time I see a Lady for the first time, she will invariably stare at my lower legs, kinda the old, "what the heck happened to you" look. After I tell her how I got that, she will settle in. I have never had one say she just could't handle looking at that and cancel the session.

[lustylad]

Originally Posted by LexusLover

"During this Census count (2,000), the number of Americans falsely claiming to have served in-country is: 13,853,027.

"By this census (2,000), FOUR OUT OF FIVE WHO CLAIM TO BE Vietnam vets are not."

I find this hard to believe. Why would there be such an epidemic of lying about Vietnam, especially given how deeply unpopular the war was? If these numbers came from what people filled out on their 2000 census forms, you would have to wonder how much of the rest of the census data is bunk.

On the other hand, lying didn't stop this POS from being elected to the US Senate:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/18/ny...umenthal.html?

.

[JD Barleycorn]

The lying is probably guilt for the way they acted towards the war, the veterans, and their country. Others, because they didn't have the guilts to step up.

[Jackie S]

Originally Posted by lustylad

On the other hand, lying didn't stop this POS from being elected to the US Senate:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/18/ny...umenthal.html?

.

The "D" after his name explains everything.

Heck. Between him, Hillary, and Brian Williams, they could make a entire war movie.

[LexusLover]

Originally Posted by lustylad

I find this hard to believe.

I don't find it hard to believe. I found it good for our society to begin openly and publicly "accepting" servicemembers and thanking them after the incursion into Kuwait and Iraq in the early 90's. Servicemembers were actually wearing their uniforms when traveling. That's quite different from 20+ years earlier.

Few servicemembers wore any part of a uniform that might reveal their military service, unless of course, if they were on their way to an anti-war rally or SDS meeting .... Here's a sad example:



and here is the saddest ...

[Old-T]

Originally Posted by lustylad

Your explanation is nonsense. Yes, we supported the mujaheddin against the Russians during the 1980s, inter alia by supplying stinger missiles to shoot down Russian helicopters. But our covert assistance caused the deaths of Russian soldiers, not "good, religious Muslims".
You are looking through your lenses. Yes, our aid killed Russians. It also was reasonably indiscriminate about which Afghans got weapons. Any Afghan who would point them at the Russians was a friend of ours at the time.

Once the Soviets left in 1989, we quickly lost interest in the region. Pakistan (who worked closely with us to channel aid to the mujaheddin) complained bitterly about how quickly we packed up and left after our strategic objective of evicting the Russians was accomplished. Absolutely true. And when we pulled out there was an increased use of US provided weapons by Afghan against Afghan. Tribe vs tribe, and secular Afghans vs "religious" Afghans. Thus an accusation in OBL's mind that US aid was killing "proper" Afghans. I suspect he would have overlooked the fact that US weapons also allowed "good' Muslim Afghans to kill other Afghans--zealots don't typically see too objectively.

OBL was a pipsqueak POS who exaggerated his own mujaheddin contributions (which were minimal) during the 1980s and downplayed the importance of US assistance in defeating the Russians.
True and true. But in a jihad what role does truth play? Not much. He spun stories, was a charismatic figure, and knew how to rally people behing a fanatical idea. Kind of like Adolph. I never said he was good or rational, just explaining some of what he saw as justification.

He started plotting terrorism against the US after the First Persian Gulf War (1991) because he didn't like the fact that the Saudi regime let Westerners launch Desert Storm and liberate Kuwait from military bases on Saudi soil.
True, except for the word "started".

.

The world is a little more complicated than would be convenient at times. But it is what it is.

[lustylad]

Originally Posted by lustylad

He started plotting terrorism against the US after the First Persian Gulf War (1991) because he didn't like the fact that the Saudi regime let Westerners launch Desert Storm and liberate Kuwait from military bases on Saudi soil.
True, except for the word "started".

From wikipedia:

"It is believed that the first bombing attack involving bin Laden was the December 29, 1992, bombing of the Gold Mihor Hotel in Aden in which two people were killed."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osama_bin_Laden


That was 20 months after Desert Storm. Do you have any evidence he started earlier than this?

.

[rioseco]

Originally Posted by wellendowed1911

A recent poll by CNN stated that 3 out of 4 Americans disapprove of Obama's handling of ISIS. I would like to get the conservatives on this site explain what they think Obama should do- because I think most of you will flip flop on this subject.

I for one think that the Islamic nations in the middle east should put a coalition and fight ISIS- after all isn't this a muslim issue? This would be a great opportunity for muslims to gain some credibility and wipe out these scum bags. I am 100 percent against sending our troops to fight ISIS.

Pleasse interpret this as no disrespect to you or your beliefs but, try to relate this to WW II. Then it was a German/Nazi vs. Jews but do you think that the same historical results could have been achieved had the USA left it for Europe to address it alone ?

[LexusLover]

Originally Posted by rioseco

... try to relate this to WW II. Then it was a German/Nazi vs. Jews but do you think that the same historical results could have been achieved had the USA left it for Europe to address it alone ?

On several levels the comparison is legitimate in so far as this country is concerned ... from latter revelations as to the knowledge of the FDR administration of the German "Solution" directed at the Jewish population, to the expansion from one country to the next in Europe, and the "cooperative" agreements carved with other countries throughout the world with a master plan of the ruling of the World.

A major and primary difference is that there is 24/7 video imaging and investigative reporting being done NOW with international components that bring knowledge directly to the U.S. people. Even then we get "filtered" information, but not nearly as controlled.

There was a strong anti-war movement in this country then as well. This country paid a higher price by waiting.

[gfejunkie]

ISIS (ISLAMIC State) is (are) this generation's NAZI Party.
The sooner this administration realizes that, the easier the decisions will be.

[JD Barleycorn]

I think it goes beyond the Nazi party comparison. The Republican Guard were hard core soldiers but they were not fanatical. Once they saw the handwriting on the wall they dropped their uniforms and lived to fight another day. ISIS is a trained military force that is becoming more trained everyday and they are fanatical. They are the SS of the 21st century. The German SS were fanatical, true believers of the Nazi myth. How did we treat them? Usually shot on sight or hung shortly after capture. These guys are not going to go away and if they did disappear it would be to turn back up later with a knife to your throat.