Mass shooting at midnight Dark Knight Rises showing near Denver

[LexusLover]

Originally Posted by gnadfly

Oswald and Whitman both marine trained snipers.

Its unfair to cite incidences before the conceal carry law was passed. Which by the way was pushed thru the Texas legislature by the daughter of a man who was slain at that Luby's. The army guys at Ft Hood have (most) of their weapons taken away, except for the shooter.

So, you think a CHL carrier is gonna make it to a Southwest flight packing? Do you?

FYI: I was present during the "final" debate on the Senate floor of the original CHL scheme and had been enjoying the rhetoric with a couple of DA's (and I don't mean assistants) ... and Lubby's wasn't even mentioned. The only other "floor debate" that rivals it for humor was the one involving "daylight savings time" in which West Texas farmers were complaining that it would cause their crops to burn up by increasing the day time periods!

Bad facts make bad law.

The last thing I want to do is go to a movie with a bunch of gunslinging wanta-be's with 12 hours of license training and 10 hours of refresher every couple of years whose experience involves plinking at paper targets at the range ... packing their latest version of heavy loaded rounds ... drawing their "weapons" in the dark with hysteria gripping a bunch of people herding toward a couple of exits and attempting to shoot some asshole wearing body armour.

The good thing about the "OK corral" was that everyone there were there to die or kill the other guy..... not to watch a movie or be on their way to a vacation.

Oh, as for the losses at UT campus .... take a look at the tower at UT. Closely. Whitman was firing for the most part through the drain spots at that level .... there were numerous .... probably a 100 officers of various flavors on campus roof tops behind the peaks of the roofs with rifles and a helicopter buzzing around above the tower spraying the tower with automatic weapons fire ... it is as likely that some of those on campus were struck with "friendly fire" as it was that Whitman got them. It was not safe to be outside in the open.

And the Fort Hood incident absolutely parallels the movie theater ... on that issue alone ... the movie goers in Colorado were not armed ... and they were not trained for combat as in Fort Hood.

And what the hell does "Oswald" have to do with mass murders of innocent people?

I think Gad, your point that it would happen in Texas is simply not well taken ... it happens all over this country whether a state has a "concealed carry" law or not.

It happens all over Mexico ... and its against the law to even carry a pistol at all .... period down there ... they have tough "gun laws" .... so tough our government has to provide the Cartel's with weapons to shoot each other!

[LexusLover]

Originally Posted by LexusLover

Oh, as for the losses at UT campus .... take a look at the tower at UT. Closely. Whitman was firing for the most part through the drain spots at that level ....

http://www.flickr.com/photos/1055749...n/photostream/

See the drain spouts.

[oilfieldscum]

Originally Posted by gnadfly

Oswald and Whitman both marine trained snipers.

Its unfair to cite incidences before the conceal carry law was passed. Which by the way was pushed thru the Texas legislature by the daughter of a man who was slain at that Luby's. The army guys at Ft Hood have (most) of their weapons taken away, except for the shooter.

I don't know about Whtiman but Oswald wasn't a trained sniper. All marines are marksmanship trained and Oswald just scorded high enough to make sharpshooter-the middle qualification grade.

[Jackie S]

What made Whitman so affective was he had a Remington Model 700 in 6mm Rem, . If he would have had a typical "Assault Rifle", the death toll would have probably been lower.

[LexusLover]

Originally Posted by oilfieldscum

I don't know about Whtiman ....

Same.

But I repeat Whitman's "view point" was limited physically on the observation deck.

[gnadfly]

Originally Posted by LexusLover

So, you think a CHL carrier is gonna make it to a Southwest flight packing? Do you?

FYI: I was present during the "final" debate on the Senate floor of the original CHL scheme and had been enjoying the rhetoric with a couple of DA's (and I don't mean assistants) ... and Lubby's wasn't even mentioned. The only other "floor debate" that rivals it for humor was the one involving "daylight savings time" in which West Texas farmers were complaining that it would cause their crops to burn up by increasing the day time periods!

Bad facts make bad law.

The last thing I want to do is go to a movie with a bunch of gunslinging wanta-be's with 12 hours of license training and 10 hours of refresher every couple of years whose experience involves plinking at paper targets at the range ... packing their latest version of heavy loaded rounds ... drawing their "weapons" in the dark with hysteria gripping a bunch of people herding toward a couple of exits and attempting to shoot some asshole wearing body armour.

The good thing about the "OK corral" was that everyone there were there to die or kill the other guy..... not to watch a movie or be on their way to a vacation.

Oh, as for the losses at UT campus .... take a look at the tower at UT. Closely. Whitman was firing for the most part through the drain spots at that level .... there were numerous .... probably a 100 officers of various flavors on campus roof tops behind the peaks of the roofs with rifles and a helicopter buzzing around above the tower spraying the tower with automatic weapons fire ... it is as likely that some of those on campus were struck with "friendly fire" as it was that Whitman got them. It was not safe to be outside in the open.

And the Fort Hood incident absolutely parallels the movie theater ... on that issue alone ... the movie goers in Colorado were not armed ... and they were not trained for combat as in Fort Hood.

And what the hell does "Oswald" have to do with mass murders of innocent people?

I think Gad, your point that it would happen in Texas is simply not well taken ... it happens all over this country whether a state has a "concealed carry" law or not.

It happens all over Mexico ... and its against the law to even carry a pistol at all .... period down there ... they have tough "gun laws" .... so tough our government has to provide the Cartel's with weapons to shoot each other!

I think your prejudice against CHL is causing you to melt my posts together LL.

No, I don't think CHL licensees are going to make it on board a SW flight with their weapon but they will be on board and ready to take on a hijacker.

As for the movie theater its the possibility that 10 Texans may be packing that keeps the nuts from going beserk. Of course I don't want gunfire in a dark theater...but I do want the nuts to know that if they go off there may be someone near them with a 9 mm with some training.

CHL seems to have worked fairly well in Texas. The Conceal Carry Law took effect in 1996. Look at the drop in murders and other violent crimes since then:

http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/txcrime.htm

Nope, the Ft Hood incident is not a good example for your argument. Everyone was disarmed and Dr Hasan knew it.

Oswald doesn't have anything to do with Aurora. Someone brought up Whitman. I was just bringing up they were both trained by the Marines. What does Whitman have to do with this shooting? Was the Aurora shooter trained by the US military?

[LexusLover]

Originally Posted by gnadfly

I think your prejudice against CHL ....

Now you are playing the "prejudice card" ... to be specific I do not have a problem with someone obtaining a license after a screening process to carry a handgun ... I do have a problem with the anemic training and standards that are "required" to qualify for one and to re-qualify.

As for a deterrence effect, I do not believe there is any statistically significant evidence that the existence of CHL's have reduced violent crimes in Texas ... a drop in the "murder" rate can be just as easily explained by improved emergency medical techniques, equipment, personnel training, and response times ....

As for the Colorado shooter it seems there is plenty of evidence that he was anticipating some armed resistence when he planned the assault on the movie goers. He was wearing it, from what I read and heard.

The military has nothing to do with any of the listed incidents ...

.... those are irrelevant facts. Any more than the lack of military training had any.

Crazy nut cases do not analytically consider whether or not there will be CHL holders "packing" in the location of the target of their twisted, distorted minds, ... unless, of course, they are planning a "suicide by CHL holder" ... then it would be a factor... that is if the CHL holder had sufficient training to accommodate the sicko efficiently while being shot at by the live shooting target they get to confront for the first time, while at the same time attempting to avoid murdering a person standing beside or behind the sicko because the CHL holder neglected to factor into the live fire situation when purchasing rounds that were too hot for shooting in crowds or enclosed spaces like a movie theater!

But I am almost certain that somewhere out there it will make some providers panties wet just dreaming of that gunfighting, CHL carrier, fluffing up, with his "9 mil"! [note to self ... I thought they were banned years ago]

[gnadfly]

Originally Posted by LexusLover

Now you are playing the "prejudice card" ... to be specific I do not have a problem with someone obtaining a license after a screening process to carry a handgun ... I do have a problem with the anemic training and standards that are "required" to qualify for one d toan re-qualify.

As for a deterrence effect, I do not believe there is any statistically significant evidence that the existence of CHL's have reduced violent crimes in Texas ... a drop in the "murder" rate can be just as easily explained by improved emergency medical techniques, equipment, personnel training, and response times ....

As for the Colorado shooter it seems there is plenty of evidence that he was anticipating some armed resistence when he planned the assault on the movie goers. He was wearing it, from what I read and heard.

The military has nothing to do with any of the listed incidents ...

.... those are irrelevant facts. Any more than the lack of military training had any.

Crazy nut cases do not analytically consider whether or not there will be CHL holders "packing" in the location of the target of their twisted, distorted minds, ... unless, of course, they are planning a "suicide by CHL holder" ... then it would be a factor... that is if the CHL holder had sufficient training to accommodate the sicko efficiently while being shot at by the live shooting target they get to confront for the first time, while at the same time attempting to avoid murdering a person standing beside or behind the sicko because the CHL holder neglected to factor into the live fire situation when purchasing rounds that were too hot for shooting in crowds or enclosed spaces like a movie theater!

But I am almost certain that somewhere out there it will make some providers panties wet just dreaming of that gunfighting, CHL carrier, fluffing up, with his "9 mil"! [note to self ... I thought they were banned years ago]

If you clicked the link the drop off for 1996 and beyond was quite dramatic and remains quite dramatic.

To some extent I agree with you about a single nutcase. A total whackjob is going to do whatever the voices in their head tells them. The point is the statistics show the guns in the hands of reliable citizens have a violent crime reduction effect. Its totally proven.

You may not like the "meager" training the avg CHL holder gets but the last statistics I heard is CHL holders in Texas have very, very few charges filed against them for use of their handgun. Far fewer than non CHL holders.

I have no idea why you keep bringing up military training.

[LexusLover]

Originally Posted by gnadfly

Far fewer than non CHL holders.

I have no idea why you keep bringing up military training.

As for #1, that stat is skewered, because a nonCHL carrier is more likely to get charged with possession than a CHL carrier ... duh?

I am not concerned about "charges filed" I am concerned about authorizing people to carry weapons who lack the training to use the weapons in circumstances and conditions for which they are intending to utilize the weapons ...

As for the military ..... I didn't. You did.

Originally Posted by gnadfly
"Oswald and Whitman both marine trained snipers." [Emphasis added].

[pyramider]

9 mil guns are very popular. I prefer something with more stopping power.

[LexusLover]

Originally Posted by pyramider

9 mil guns are very popular.

Yes, those pistols are mentioned quite frequently on the LE TV shows (Primarily reruns).

Now, back to the thread topic .....

Issuing weapons to take into a movie theater is ....

... not an option to prevent Aurora from repeating.

BTW: A striking similarities between the UT Tower fiasco and the Aurora mess ... campus overtones AND
both shooters communicated their "mental images" to a campus shrink BEFORE the event.

[oilfieldscum]

Originally Posted by gnadfly

I think your prejudice against CHL is causing you to melt my posts together LL.

No, I don't think CHL licensees are going to make it on board a SW flight with their weapon but they will be on board and ready to take on a hijacker.

As for the movie theater its the possibility that 10 Texans may be packing that keeps the nuts from going beserk. Of course I don't want gunfire in a dark theater...but I do want the nuts to know that if they go off there may be someone near them with a 9 mm with some training.

CHL seems to have worked fairly well in Texas. The Conceal Carry Law took effect in 1996. Look at the drop in murders and other violent crimes since then:

http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/txcrime.htm

Nope, the Ft Hood incident is not a good example for your argument. Everyone was disarmed and Dr Hasan knew it.

Oswald doesn't have anything to do with Aurora. Someone brought up Whitman. I was just bringing up they were both trained by the Marines. What does Whitman have to do with this shooting? Was the Aurora shooter trained by the US military?

They are all related because the shooters were/are all nutbags.

[pyramider]

Ever wonder why no one opens up at the midnight showings of the Rocky Horror Picture Show?

[LexusLover]

Originally Posted by pyramider

Ever wonder why no one opens up at the midnight showings of the Rocky Horror Picture Show?

No.

[jetdriver123]

Get ready for gun and ammo control. Holmes is just a patsy. Look at him in court. Drugged to the nines and incapable of doing the shooting. My take is that he was standing outside and fed to the cops. Just like the Reichstag Fire in 1933, Gulf on Tonkin, operation northwoods, something bad happens and the world changes.