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MsElena · 02-03-2010, 07:28 AM

Is this for real? You're insinuating again. And yet again, you have failed to site your source which leads me to believe that the number is something you just came up with in your head.

Mara_Amor · 02-03-2010, 08:34 AM

I was not directing my statement towards anyone on the board.

Demonizing women for their mistakes or their choices is not at all my prerogative.
I honestly don't think that those statistics (on birth control) are accurate. I was scheduled to have an abortion with my child. Two of the girls in the waiting room where with their boy friends. (they were like, um we just can't afford to have a kid right now. We are certainly going to start using birth control) several teenagers with their moms.
Everyone just talking about their situation so lightly. None of them ever mentioned the birth control not being effective.
When we were in the last room they told us to take a pill and that if anyone of us decided to change our minds at any point we wouldn't be getting a refund. That's when I left. I filled out 3 sheets of paper, no counseling was ever offered.
I did extensive researched afterwards and I was mortified.
My thoughts on abortion are not emphasized by religious beliefs.
It is fact that a fetus has a heart beat and brain waves it's own DNA.

It is very much a double standard! When someone kills a pregnant mother, they get charged for the murder of two.

Some woman use abortion as a method of birth control. Having multiple abortions. Yeah, I had a friend who was on her 6th.

I just don't get it? It's catastrophic to me to know that innocent children are not given the chance to live.

I apologize about my ignorant approach.

dirty dog · 02-03-2010, 10:47 AM

Elena, so am I right to assume that because birth control is not 100% effective the right thing to do is just have sex and if your number comes up in the baby lottery you just run down to the guy in the green suit and have it wacked.

Of course its not 100% effective, but you can't tell me that of the million abortions that occur all of them are from ineffective birth control. I believe that the number could be reduced significantly if individuals would take the steps necessary to prevent unwanted pregnencies. Dont rely on one form of birth control, both partners should be using a form of birth control i.e. the pill and a condom. But thats not fun right, I mean it just does not feel the same. So what people do is choose the feeling over safety and guess what happens. Abortions allows many to rationalize their irresponsibility. I am 45 and have been having sex since I was 15. I have managed to not make babies, why is that? Because I choose safety over a better feeling experiance, or in other words I chose to be responsible.

Your initial comment was that eliminating abortion would cause a huge strain on society because of all the unwanted children. I believe using birth control responsibly would reduce this strain significantly. Our society is so quick to try and find some thing to rationalize behavior. Your kid gets a bad grade, the teacher does not like him. Or your boss does not like you so you did not get that promotion, of course it should not matter that you arrive late to work 4 times a week. No one wants to take responsibility for their actions. Like I said before, if someone wants to have an abortion thats between them and god and not for me to judge. But they should at least take responsibility for what they are doing and acknowledge that another life is paying the price for their irresponsibility. I am not refering to abortions as a result of medical reasons, acts of rape or incest.

Guest072311 · 02-03-2010, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigMikeinKC

....Anybody change their minds or go hmmm?

Seems like everyone who has posted has the same stance. Now, its just turning into a pissing contest.

Perhaps its time for this thread to end gracefully. I for one am done on the subject.

As I told dd earlier, I would pull the cord if it did, I tried. Well turns out here, it's not that easy. I requested a gentle death, slipping into the ethernet, but it does not happen here I found out, unless MacGeek can figure something out! So, keep the urine in the "pouch" folks? NO NAME CALLING, PLEASE.... Allow others an opinion, they are not dumb or stupid if they disagree with you on any topic, they just disagree. Stay with personal opinion and data, no religious dogma at all. I fear banning may result, and I don't want to be responsible for anyone being banned...so say it calmly...think before hitting the SUBMIT button?

BiggestBest · 02-03-2010, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MsElena

Is this for real? You're insinuating again. And yet again, you have failed to site your source which leads me to believe that the number is something you just came up with in your head.

I'm really not trying to offend you.

I provided a source. The web site shows the 99.7% numbers.

I'm not insinuating, I'm just making a statement. "The vast majority of abortions happened because birth control wasn't used correctly, if at all." That's not all abortions, there are some exceptions, but those are exceptions, not the vast majority.

The abortion industry makes millions of dollars every year. A part of that money is used to manipulate statistics and produce propaganda designed to keep the money flowing.

Unfortunately, this is done at the expense of the mental and physical health of women, who the industry is NOT paid to care about.

MsElena · 02-03-2010, 11:37 AM

BB,

You're not offending me, I can handle a discussion about touchy topics. All I was asking for was for you to site your source and you didn't until you found a website that was able to provide some numbers that were close to yours.

I never said that the majority of abortions were based upon BC not working properly, I simply provided numbers that proved your 99.999% wrong.

There's never going to be a sure fire way of determining how many abortions were done for certain reasons.

DD,

You took my post wrong about birth control. I was stating that birth control does fail, that's all. It was stated in a post numerous times that women should be on birth control, I was pointing out facts and posted numbers of women being on BC when they got pregnant.

As for my "comments," they weren't comments, only questions. I threw some questions out there and really didn't get any responses from the people who are pro-life.

If I may point something out that no one has really touched upon. Its not only the ladies responsibility for birth control as it is the man's too. Everyone wants to lay this burden upon the woman, but it takes two to tango. If a man wants to get laid, he needs to speak up too.

I myself am held for the decisions I have made, I make and will continue to make in life. They may not all be the right choices, but I have to live with that. I would love to say that I don't judge people, but we all do to some extent. But, I do try my hardest not to. None of us are perfect. I respect other's opinions and decisions they make, and I hope they return the favor to me.

This discussion has run its course and as Mike stated, we are only making our stances, but some data was added. I'm not going to change your mind, but then again I haven't tried to sway your choice.

dirty dog · 02-03-2010, 01:51 PM

"If I may point something out that no one has really touched upon. Its not only the ladies responsibility for birth control as it is the man's too. Everyone wants to lay this burden upon the woman, but it takes two to tango. If a man wants to get laid, he needs to speak up too."

Elena, I agree with you 100% it is not just the women responsibility, I know your not trying to sway me nor am I trying to sway you. I enjoy the intellectual debate, I have learned things on both sides of the debate. I hope you dont think I am picking on you in any way. Its refreshing to talk to people on this board about something other than hooking up, its refreshing to speak with intellegent people of both sexes. Who knows maybe someone will read this thread and it aids them in making a tough decision.

Omahan · 02-03-2010, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ss4699

As I told dd earlier, I would pull the cord if it did, I tried. Well turns out here, it's not that easy. I requested a gentle death, slipping into the ethernet, but it does not happen here I found out, unless MacGeek can figure something out! So, keep the urine in the "pouch" folks? NO NAME CALLING, PLEASE.... Allow others an opinion, they are not dumb or stupid if they disagree with you on any topic, they just disagree. Stay with personal opinion and data, no religious dogma at all. I fear banning may result, and I don't want to be responsible for anyone being banned...so say it calmly...think before hitting the SUBMIT button?

SS this is the second or third time you have said not to bring up religion in this thread. ECCIE has no such rule. As long as the discussion is respectful and civil it is fine.

Also, since a large percentage of the pro-life position is based on religion it seems a bit unfair to tell people they can't use religious arguments. It's sort of like fighting someone after tying one or both of his hands behind his back.

MsElena · 02-03-2010, 03:00 PM

DD,

Thanks and like you, I enjoy having discussions that aren't just about hooking up. I knew you weren't picking on me. One has to quote others in order to continue the discussion and make their point.

BigMikeinKC · 02-03-2010, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omahan

SS this is the second or third time you have said not to bring up religion in this thread. ECCIE has no such rule. As long as the discussion is respectful and civil it is fine.

Also, since a large percentage of the pro-life position is based on religion it seems a bit unfair to tell people they can't use religious arguments. It's sort of like fighting someone after tying one or both of his hands behind his back.

Hmm, could I tie both of Fred Phelps hands behind his back?

BiggestBest · 02-03-2010, 04:47 PM

Fred is the best thing that ever happened to the anti-religious groups.

Almost no one anywhere agrees with anything he says. He hates everyone including veterans. And the media LOVES him.

You can't buy a red herring like that...

Longermonger · 02-03-2010, 10:06 PM

[ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_birth_control_me thods[/ame]

I think one of the previous posters was on the high side by fractions of a percent and should beg for mercy. LOL j/k

Behold! I have a dragon chart.

EDIT: Check out the "perfect-use" column for pulling out. That's impressive. Ladies, do your part to help prevent unwanted pregnancies and abortions...let the guy skeet on you.

BigMikeinKC · 02-04-2010, 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BiggestBest

Fred is the best thing that ever happened to the anti-religious groups.

Almost no one anywhere agrees with anything he says. He hates everyone including veterans. And the media LOVES him.

You can't buy a red herring like that...

I don't consider him religious. He is a nut bag, simple as that. Hate is not a religious philosophy.

My issue with certain religions is the preachers who make millions off their followers. If you are truly a servant of God, you give back and don't keep for yourself.