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Originally Posted by enderwiggin
Kindness is one thing. "Walk all over me because you're the most perfect woman ever, ever, ever." is completely different and its sets a bad precedent for the rest of us. Ever wonder where some providers get these massive egos and narcissistic attitudes? *cough*SOFIA*cough* There's your answer.
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So where do you delineate between ordinary kindness and a lap dog? I would still hazard a guess, given the vehemence of some guys on this thread, that anything beyond the white envelope is being a lap dog. All I know is I have been at this for over twenty years, and my experience may have been different, but the standard white envelope gets you standard BCD, however how you treat a lady might just impact the quality of that service.
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And also, dude, comparing providers to slaves and hobbyists to slave-masters is not only insulting, its also the one of dumbest fucking things I've read on any board. I don't need your help to examine my motives, pal. So what if a hobbyist wants to objectify a provider? If she's alright with it and is fairly compensated, and he's non-violent and legitimate, why should YOU care what their motives are?
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Funny how hyperbole works on a person. It is so shocking it bores right down into the soul and makes you see the light. In this case it did exactly that, you just proved my only point with the last part of that:
why should YOU care what their motives are?
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If this doesn't piss you off to no end, then you either have no business here or YOU are a WK douchebag.
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Life is to short to get pissed off by stuff I have no control over. I would not consider myself a WK. Don't they tend to get tied down? I already have a wife, thank you! Why the fuck do you think I hobby? More importantly I never tire of seeing a new lady. I only return to a given lady because she may have exceptional skill at a given technique I am in the mood for, or she is pretty good at what she does and she was the only one available at the time. Once again it goes back to your definition of a WK. You and some of the other folks seem to be hinting at anyone that does anything beyond a white envelope stuffed only with whatever her most recent special was.
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The information exchange is intended to be helpful and level the playing field between hobbyists and providers. Lying about your experiences because you think a provider is just the tits and want her to have a great reputation and couldn't care less who you might be cheating is your right. And I encourage you to do it. Your true colors will come out faster and your credibility will be for shit and we will all know it.
I do agree with you that we all should go into any first session with no expectations; YMMV, as you say. But that's a looooong way from being deceived by some asshole passing off bunk information because it makes him "feel good".
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No arguments there. Preach it brother!
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I'd like to thank you for comparing what providers do to landscaping and fixing transmissions. That is so obtuse, I barely have words for it.
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I am beginning to think you don't understand the use of hyperbole in rhetoric. The exaggeration was purposeful, and I did achieve my desired effect. Were you the product of the public education system? That would explain the socialist tone I seem to be picking up about fairness and a level playing field. Fuck that, free market is the best way to keep the hobby safe for everyone. By the way, tipping is part of the free market. Geeze, this whole thread is reminding me of that opening scene in Reservoir Dogs where Buscemi goes on his rant about fairness in the service industry.
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The difference between bringing a landscaper lemonade and cow-towing to a provider should be obvious, but you don't seem to think so. Allow me to explain. If you bring a landscaper lemonade, he isn't likely to turn around and expect to get lemonade from every other customer he has. More to the point, he isn't likely to get attitude with his other customers when they don't give him lemonade.
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Yeah, but he might mow my lawn better and throw in some mulch for free. If you expect me to complain about that or otherwise buckle under these socialist edicts you want in the hobby, don't hold your breath. You bet you ass I am always trying to get the best possible service by building rapport with those that serve me
in any setting. I could give two shits if that means you have to work a bit harder because kindness and courtesy is an alien concept to you.
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However, since hobbying is a service based on personal relationships. . .
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HUH? I thought it was about sex. I already have a wife. . .
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how you treat someone IS likely to create a sense of entitlement to that treatment. In other words, a person can come to believe that they DESERVE to be treated that way by everyone, regardless if thats the type of personal relationship another person wants with them.
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Kindness rarely results in entitlement. I think you are drifting back into the lap dog definition, and we have already agreed that we we feel the same way about that. Neither one of us are going to pay someone's electric bill.
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You're right kindness and respect will go a long way in this thing of ours. But putting a provider up on a pedestal because you're a fucking weenie isn't kindness and isn't respect. Its obsession and its creepy and it creates problems for the rest of us, hobbyists and providers alike.
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So what do you consider a WK beyond what we agree on? Is it anyone that does anything beyond the white envelope?
It is fatuous to assert that the guy who brings a gift, flowers, or does some other kind thing is a WK that hurts the hobby community.
A lap dog. . .especially one that pees all over the floor with padded reviews and other behavior, that is different.
I think I am starting to see the problem here. Maybe we disagree about what constitutes kindness in the hobby?
Like I said, I am not paying anyone's electric bill and neither do you. I do however add small touches to my session. Little things, maybe a bottle of wine, maybe some chocolate, maybe flowers--small things. I am sorry if that bothers you, but hey nobody says you have to do that. I just know it works for me. Maybe I am just uglier than you and need all the help I can get.
--Anon
I guess I'll put up my tap shoes.
What's a white knight??
