Serious Question

[Chica Chaser]

Originally Posted by CJ7

heres a better SERIOUS question
are the federal agents who were involved in the operation guilty of anything?

Yes, of operational mismanagement and of following orders from Washington.

By early 2010, straw buyers were picking up more than 300 guns monthly from Arizona firearms dealers, and cartels in Mexico were killing up to 1,200 people per month. Authorities said one straw buyer in Phoenix bought a total of 720 guns.

"Although my instincts made me want to intervene and interdict these weapons," Dodson testified later in a congressional hearing, "my supervisors directed me and my colleagues not to make any stop or arrest but rather to keep the straw purchaser under surveillance while allowing the guns to walk."

The plan seemed simple: Let some weapons go across the border in hopes of tracing them to drug lords.

And, at least early on, few seemed to question the strategy devised by Phoenix ATF agents.

A successful case would put big-time narcotics criminals in prison, enhance ATF's reputation and advance agents' careers. It might also put a spotlight on American gun laws that enable straw buyers to help arm the Mexican syndicates.

But as Fast and Furious progressed in 2009-10, obvious and crucial flaws emerged: Hundreds of high-powered rifles vanished into Mexico because investigators had no way to follow the guns -- or to develop criminal cases against those who wound up with them.

Within weeks, firearms began turning up at Mexican crime scenes, often next to corpses.

Some ATF agents tried to warn that people in Mexico were getting killed and that a public-relations disaster was inevitable. A few lawyers in the Justice Department also became alarmed, pressing for the flow of firearms to stop.

Their complaints were dismissed or ignored. More guns went south.

Gunrunners were not arrested.

The bloodshed in Mexico escalated.

Then, in December 2010, matters got worse: U.S. Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry was gunned down in a midnight shootout with banditos near Rio Rico, and two AK-47-style rifles from Fast and Furious were found nearby.

ATF administrators and federal prosecutors kept the connection under wraps. But, within days, whistle-blower agents started leaking information.

ATF and Department of Justice officials denied that guns were allowed into Mexico. But congressional inquiries revealed that more than 2,000 guns were sold to straw buyers during the operation and about two-thirds of them apparently crossed the border.

Most of the weapons were semiautomatic rifles, but the arsenal included 34 high-powered .50-caliber guns.

[Fast Gunn]

I have caught the gist of this story as it has crossed my radar, but honestly, it really has not made me care enough to dig into it like some old geezers who seem obsessed with it.

When the vote to hold Holder in contempt, the count was straight down party lines.

All the Democrats voted against and all the Republicans votes for.

That fact alone tells me the whole story and this is strictly a political issue.

To my mind, This Fast and Furious bullshit is simply a tempest in a teapot.

. . . It brings to mind all the sound and fury of the White Water investigation that President Clinton was subjected to purely for political reasons and not anything of substance or importance. Just another ploy to hurt the President politically by hurting his cabinet members.

[I B Hankering]

Originally Posted by Fast Gunn

I have caught the gist of this story as it has crossed my radar, but honestly, it really has not made me care enough to dig into it like some old geezers who seem obsessed with it.

When the vote to hold Holder in contempt, the count was straight down party lines.

All the Democrats voted against and all the Republicans votes for.

That fact alone tells me the whole story and this is strictly a political issue.

To my mind, This Fast and Furious bullshit is simply a tempest in a teapot.

. . . It brings to mind all the sound and fury of the White Water investigation that President Clinton was subjected to purely for political reasons and not anything of substance or importance. Just another ploy to hurt the President politically by hurting his cabinet members.

It was enough that you admitted you are ignorant. The rest of your post was superfluous.

[joe bloe]

Originally Posted by Fast Gunn

I have caught the gist of this story as it has crossed my radar, but honestly, it really has not made me care enough to dig into it like some old geezers who seem obsessed with it.

When the vote to hold Holder in contempt, the count was straight down party lines.

All the Democrats voted against and all the Republicans votes for.

That fact alone tells me the whole story and this is strictly a political issue.

To my mind, This Fast and Furious bullshit is simply a tempest in a teapot.

. . . It brings to mind all the sound and fury of the White Water investigation that President Clinton was subjected to purely for political reasons and not anything of substance or importance. Just another ploy to hurt the President politically by hurting his cabinet members.

The party line vote doesn't prove it's just politics. The Democrats are corrupt. They'd vote unanimously to protect the Devil if the minority whip told them to. Come to think of it, that's pretty much what they're doing.

[WTF]

This is pure politics...

btw, Does anybody think that the only guns killing folks are from this screwed up operation? Seriously? They are kidnapping people and cutting off their heads.



We are not for gun control, remember. Those Mexicans have ever much a right to kill each other as we do!


Lastly , none of you righties give a shit about some Mexican that gets shot with these guns! Damn, you wanting to deport our honor students that came over here with their parents!

[I B Hankering]

Originally Posted by WTF

! Damn, you wanting to deport our honor students that came over here with their parents!

Wrong!!! Right thinking citizens only want to deport Odumbo (w/Holder), Pelosi, Reid and any one dumb enough to vote for or support them.

[IIFFOFRDB]

OlivaHoward is like Jerry Willis...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FyS6emd7M6A

Doove is like Jerry Springer...or the tranny...or the thug...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGw84...eature=related

C(blow)J7 is like...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjjujau9hUw

Iffy is like...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZD-Q...eature=related

Fuck y'all...

[CuteOldGuy]

You forgot me!

Here I am with my lovely lady:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEWaq...feature=relmfu

[Chica Chaser]

Originally Posted by WTF

[SIZE=4]Lastly , none of you righties give a shit about some Mexican that gets shot with these guns! Damn, you wanting to deport our honor students that came over here with their parents!

Well you are just flat out wrong on both counts there, friend. I'm perfectly capable of giving a shit about what I believe is important.

And an extremely small percentage of these kids are "honor" students. At least here in my backyard, ground zero for all this shit. Nor do I believe they should be deported, the kids did nothing wrong and are not culpable for their parents actions. Obama has it right on the Dream Act.
http://communities.washingtontimes.c...igration-undo/

[CJ7]

Originally Posted by Chica Chaser

Yes, of operational mismanagement and of following orders from Washington.

thanks for a straight answer cc .. its impossibe to get one from the old shits ...

I agree with the Dream Act or Rubios plan as a B option ... the EO stopping the deportation of kids back to mexico IMO was a no brainer .. I dont buy into the gun control theory ... as a gun owner ( and I have more than a few) I understand the lengths the gun nuts will take to make a point ... IMO thats not one of them

but who really knows? I said dozens of times I thought Obama wasnt electable and Hillary had spent her last day in the WH.

[CuteOldGuy]

What the hell does the DREAM Act or the Immigration EO have to do with gun control? You are losing it, CBJ7.

[CJ7]

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

What the hell does the DREAM Act or the Immigration EO have to do with gun control? You are losing it, CBJ7.

is your fucking name chica cahser you stupid old bastard?


if you cant keep up, bow out or stfu

[Laz]

CC has the issue right. Operational mismanagement is the issue. What needs to be found out is who in the chain of command was aware of and approved this operation. The AG has clearly tried to avoid any involvement by either lying to Congress or showing he is incompetent by not remembering an operation this risky that he was informed about. Allowing weapons to be sold to drug cartels in a foreign country without their consent or involvement and with no way to track them is clearly a high risk operation that someone at a high level had to approve.

[WTF]

Originally Posted by Chica Chaser

Well you are just flat out wrong on both counts there, friend. I'm perfectly capable of giving a shit about what I believe is important.

And an extremely small percentage of these kids are "honor" students. At least here in my backyard, ground zero for all this shit. Nor do I believe they should be deported, the kids did nothing wrong and are not culpable for their parents actions. Obama has it right on the Dream Act.
http://communities.washingtontimes.c...igration-undo/

I was talking about the Tea Nuts in general. They are not for it. Did you see how Perry got beat over the head with his stance?

btw, Houston is ground zero plus one!

[Chica Chaser]

Oh sure I did, then we have our lovely Governor here with the whole SB1070 deal leading the charge.

If Mexico wants to sell weapons to their own people for their own use, I got zero problem with that. Just not weapons that we allowed to be smuggled in without them knowing about it that we straight into the hands of the Zetas and Sinolas who have no knowledge of the term innocent bystanders.