I can't believe this hasn't been discussed yet

[Happy Diver]

Originally Posted by WTF

For crying out loud, I thought we were a country founded on the rule of law, not a bunch of titty babies.

You must have missed the news. We are now a nation of titty baby whiner weasels that can't do anything right. All that other stuff, law, American way, can-do attitude, outahere. You are living in the age of NASA Muslim Outreach.

[nevergaveitathought]

heard the "developer" of the property...who somehow bought it for ..well i have heard two separate amounts at different times..not sure if one was the purchase and another some development cost or what..but somehow the guy came up with around ten million to acquire the property when he was a waiter just a few short years ago....

[WTF]

Originally Posted by nevergaveitathought

..but somehow the guy came up with around ten million to acquire the property when he was a waiter just a few short years ago....

Sounds like he's living the dream! Don't be hating on the little guy making good. I thought that was what it was all about. Working at the eatery one day and owning that bitch the next. You GOP cats confuse me. You were for PROPERTY RIGHTS before you were against them.

[nevergaveitathought]

Originally Posted by WTF

Sounds like he's living the dream! Don't be hating on the little guy making good. I thought that was what it was all about. Working at the eatery one day and owning that bitch the next. You GOP cats confuse me. You were for PROPERTY RIGHTS before you were against them.

just wondering who is behind it all...since the imam is "moderate"

[charlestudor2005]

Originally Posted by nevergaveitathought

just wondering who is behind it all

I suspect it is the Tea Party...they're the ones making the most out of this.

Like criminal investigation, you ask yourself, "Who benefits the most?"

[WTF]

Originally Posted by nevergaveitathought

just wondering who is behind it all...since the imam is "moderate"

No the uproar is it being built not who is funding it. That might be the reason to stop it from being built but people are objecting to its location , not its funding. Well except for now.

Did you see the Daily show link where the Fox reports accused some of the money coming from a terrorist source and that same sourse is the second largest share holder in Fox News? Something Fox News skipped over.

[nevergaveitathought]

Originally Posted by WTF

Something Fox News skipped over.

do you air your dirty laundry?

[WTF]

Originally Posted by nevergaveitathought

do you air your dirty laundry?

No, I don't, but if I had a turd in my pants, I wouldn't be running around asking WTF stinks around here!

[Guest050715-1]

Originally Posted by charlestudor2005

I suspect it is the Tea Party...they're the ones making the most out of this.

Like criminal investigation, you ask yourself, "Who benefits the most?"

Exactly, who benefits the most? Do you think the residents of lower Manhattan will benefit with all that cultural exchange that is supposed to happen at the community center? I’ll just bet the beneficiaries are the people at the other end of the money trail. I’m with nevergaveitathought. I think there is some very quiet off shore money behind the purchase of the land. I read that the developers have $18,000 in their bank account. It is a far cry from the $100mn to build the project. I wouldn’t be at all surprised if somehow the money found its way into the developer’s bank account. And, I thought the tiny little bureaucrats enforcing the Patriot Act – NOT that I agree with that egregious document that usurps civil liberties from Americans - was in the practice of poking around in bank accounts.

And, I wish the Tea Party would just go away. They make a far to easy target.

[nevergaveitathought]

Originally Posted by OliviaHoward

I’m with nevergaveitathought.

i always wanted a girl to say that to me

[Camille]

Originally Posted by Mr.Oneeye

Good Morning Doove;

Whilst it is true that they travelled to America to escape religious persecution, it took them less than 70 years to move from being persecuted to becoming persecutors with the setting up of the Salem witch trials.

Shame, really
Cyclops

I'm not sure I agree with that. My understanding is that the Puritans were a movement of activists within the Church of England BUT unlike the CoE they were a religious AND political movement...and in effect became a splinter group as a result because their politics flew in the face of the CoE. Whilst I agree that the Puritans held some traditional and core values of the CoE in disdain (such a the common prayer book etc) and had a right to I'm not sure they can say they were being persecuted from a religious viewpoint only. Combining the 2 (pol and rel) to such a degree almost always causes extremism..whether these offshoots are Puritans, Islamic or other. Trying to hide a political movement behind the veil of religion and then screaming you are a victim is as daft as assuming that everyone of a certain religion has a political agenda which is also their primary motivator.
C

[Doove]

Originally Posted by Camille

Combining the 2 (pol and rel) to such a degree almost always causes extremism.

Truer words were never spoken. I wonder how the world would be different, not if Islam failed to exist, but if so many "Islamic States" failed to exist. Or perhaps it's just a coincidence that what seems to be the world's most violent religion also happens to be the most politically dominant. I'm guessing that many of the Christians in this country would come down on the side of it being just a mere coincidence.

[PSD]

Originally Posted by Camille

Combining the 2 (pol and rel) to such a degree almost always causes extremism..whether these offshoots are Puritans, Islamic or other. Trying to hide a political movement behind the veil of religion and then screaming you are a victim is as daft as assuming that everyone of a certain religion has a political agenda which is also their primary motivator.
C

Very true.

And also very similar to how the Republican party has aligned itself with the fundamentalist Christian movement. Sometimes they come across as no less extremist than the worst muslims...except they bomb abortion clinics.

I'm going to regret posting this.

[Mr.Oneeye]

Originally Posted by Camille

Combining the 2 (pol and rel) to such a degree almost always causes extremism..whether these offshoots are Puritans, Islamic or other.
C

Good Morning Camille;

It is important to understand that in the period we are discussing, there was no difference between religion & politics (at least in England). This was the period just after the English Civil War which was essentially a war between a Catholic King & a Protestant Parliament, and only a hundred years after Henry VIII had split from the Pope (over access to pussy, it is worth remembering).

Also remember that the point raised earlier about the American Founding Fathers stating that there should be a clear division betwixt Church & State was because in England there was an Established Church and this church brooked no dissent; neither from the Right (Catholics) nor from the Left (Puritans).

But it is worth remembering that the Pilgrim Fathers did not come to America from England; they had left England several years earlier for the Netherlands & it was from there that they set sail.

By the way; please don't get me started on this; I studied this period at UK & US universities and the difference in context and emphasis was the spark that made me realise that the differences between our two nations are more than just what we call an elevator or suspenders.

Please forgive my incoherence, I am writing this after a 5 hour dinner party with much too much to drink.

Good Night
Cyclops.

[TexTushHog]

Do all you anti-Islamic wingnuts want to take the mosque out of the Pentagon? There has been one there for years. And the Pentagon was a target on 9/11. If all the Muslims are as evil and violent and dedicated to our over throw as you claim, shouldn't we throw their ass out of the Pentagon, too?

And I'm curious. It defames ground zero to have a mosque two blocks away, but not to have a department store across the street? A McDonald's and a Starbucks around the corner?

And how big a "Muslim free zone" is a country with no official religion that guarantees both it's citizens and visitors of other nations "free exercise of religion" supposed to be? Two square blocks? Three? One square mile? All of Manhattan? All of D.C.? In how large an area do we discriminate against these guys?