Carry?

[theaustinescorts]

Yesterday an Austin resident was shot in his home by an early morning intruder who happened to be a neighbor. It's unclear what the motive of the invasion was, but it appears the intruder sought to harm the homeowner, who defended himself.

Unclear as well is the recent killing by an Austin policeman of Maurice Pierce, a principal witness in one of Austin's most notorious unsolved crimes. The APD story is that the policeman killed Pierce in self-defense, and the policeman was definitely injured by a knife. But there are no witnesses, and so far there is no evidence as to how the policeman came to be struggling with Pierce in the first place. Pierce was wanted for no crime, and had no particular reason to assault any policeman. For the moment we are asked to believe that the principal witness in Austin's most horrible unsolved crime just happened to provoke a policeman to kill him in self defense.

Pierce and two other youths were framed for the murder of four teenage girls who were slain after hours in the yogurt shop in which they worked on Anderson Lane in 1991. There was no physical evidence, no recovered weapon or motive in the case against Pierce and his two friends, only a coerced confession which was promptly recanted. All the convictions were reversed.

There has been no investigation by LE into other suspects, including several attornies and business owners in Austin who reaped millions in benefit from the legal activity which followed the murders.

Some of these attornies are suspects in the possible set-up of other crimes in which they financially benefited. In particular, the largest personal injury settlement in Travis Co. history until 1979 involved the same attorney who collected an eleven million dollar check for his role in the Yogurt shop killings. In 2005 the Plaintiff in that 1979 settlement sued that attorney for having withheld from him 90% of the actual proceeds of that settlement. Surprisingly enough if an attorney fails to give his client the proceeds of his settlement it is not a crime. It is merely a civil matter between the attorney and his client. The defendants in such cases must make their checks payable to the Plaintiff's attorney, and sometimes their clients never actually see the checks.

Hmmm...

[MOCHAakaMOCHA]

I had a guy I see (every now and then) told me on his first visit with me about how he almost stopped seeing girls in the immediate DC area because he had so many terrible back to back visits and on one occasion almost got robbed and the only way he didn't was that he was able to get "the reach" on the 2 guys he saw in a girl he was visiting room before they could. And so I said wait....you went in there packing (we were still near my hotel room door as we were talking?)? And he said yeah because he thought on so many before that he'd get ripped off and this time it actually almost happened. I made a joke that he could check my closets no one is hiding anywhere and asked if he was carrying and he said no and patted himself to show he wasn't. I just thought he'd had better sessions if he'd read reviews on those girls before seeing them (which he didn't), in the end doing homework on both sides relieves tension. It's weird IMO to be packing more than what you were born with to go have sexy time.

[DRorchia]

Originally Posted by theaustinescorts

Unclear as well is the recent killing by an Austin policeman of Maurice Pierce, a principal witness in one of Austin's most notorious unsolved crimes. The APD story is that the policeman killed Pierce in self-defense, and the policeman was definitely injured by a knife. But there are no witnesses, and so far there is no evidence as to how the policeman came to be struggling with Pierce in the first place. Pierce was wanted for no crime, and had no particular reason to assault any policeman. For the moment we are asked to believe that the principal witness in Austin's most horrible unsolved crime just happened to provoke a policeman to kill him in self defense.

This was Pierce's SECOND time assaulting a Police Officer in the last few years. In this latest case he was pulled over for running a stop sign, he jumped out of the vehicle and fled on foot and after the Officer caught up with him Pierce stabbed the officer several times including in the neck.
I seriously doubt if this particular Officer even KNEW of the Yogurt shop murders in 1991 since he was not on the Police Force at that time. He was simply out conducting Traffic Enforcement when he observed the vehicle run the stop sign.

Pierce and two other youths were framed for the murder of four teenage girls who were slain after hours in the yogurt shop in which they worked on Anderson Lane in 1991. There was no physical evidence, no recovered weapon or motive in the case against Pierce and his two friends, only a coerced confession which was promptly recanted. All the convictions were reversed.

Please provide your sources and proof that the youths were "framed". Charges being withdrawn for lack of evidence and someone being "framed" are two different things.

There has been no investigation by LE into other suspects, including several attornies and business owners in Austin who reaped millions in benefit from the legal activity which followed the murders.

Did the Police inform you that there was no investigation into other suspects? I'm wondering where you're gleaming all this inside information since you have stated in the past that most "news" sources are unreliable at best. This was one of the most exhaustive investigations ever carried out by APD, not only immediately following the murders but years later as well and the case remains open to this day.

Some of these attornies are suspects in the possible set-up of other crimes in which they financially benefited. In particular, the largest personal injury settlement in Travis Co. history until 1979 involved the same attorney who collected an eleven million dollar check for his role in the Yogurt shop killings. In 2005 the Plaintiff in that 1979 settlement sued that attorney for having withheld from him 90% of the actual proceeds of that settlement. Surprisingly enough if an attorney fails to give his client the proceeds of his settlement it is not a crime. It is merely a civil matter between the attorney and his client. The defendants in such cases must make their checks payable to the Plaintiff's attorney, and sometimes their clients never actually see the checks.

Hmmm...

Hmmmm interesting theory with the Attorneys. So Attorneys or business owners hire people to kill 4 innocent teenage girls so that they can potentially profit from the murders in what way exactly?

[theaustinescorts]

The story the police have provided regarding how Pierce came to be killed is as yet unverified. It may very well be how things happened but for now we will have to wait. What is known is that Pierce did not kill anyone in the Yogurt shop in 1991 and that he has continued his own investigations as to who the real culprits were. They may have wished to see him out of the way. There is a link between the Yogurt shop case and the 1979 case in which the Plaintiff's settlement proceeds were stolen involving the police. In the 1979 case a UT student was kidnapped by an on-duty APD patrolman who delivered the victim to three other criminals who tortured him. In that case the victim verified that the APD patrolman had been paid by his own lawyer [in the subsequent civil case that arose] to stage the kidnapping. It's all in the 2005 Petition he filed in District Court when he sought to recover his stolen settlement proceeds. Because the criminal statute has passed the APD patrolman got away with it. This attorney is a criminal lawyer as well as a civil claims lawyer and uses criminals and police alike to stage high-profile crimes which he can settle for large amounts because of their heinous nature and the publicity that surrounds them. It is insurance fraud on a sinister level. In the Yogurt shop case he collected eleven million dollars from the shop's insurance carrier in a case in which liability was thin at best. The murders were deliberate acts which could have not been prevented by anything the shop owners could have done - yet their insurance chose not to defend themselves - instead they argreed to a huge settlement when they didn't have to.

Pierce and two others youths with no other violent criminal histories were all convicted on the thinest of evidence and against strong circumstances indicating others were involved. Evidently the DA didn't consider that three broke youths and their families would find the legal assistance required to fight these convictions and see it all the way through. The defense attornies volunteered their services because it was clear that the three defendants had been railroaded.

The Yogurt shop killings have all the elements of a professional job. This was done by hardened killers who knew how to destroy evidence, etc.

Anyone who wishes to believe that Pierce and the other two did that job must believe that three young guys would suddenly become extreme ruthless killers who were eager two shoot four teenage girls in the back of their heads with silenced weapons, etc.

In the prosecution's case they provided no motive for the slayings.

[theaustinescorts]

The policeman who killed Pierce is also suspected of other criminal activity as well.

[DRorchia]

Silenced weapons? Where did you get this information? To my knowledge, what is known is that the weapons that were used in the murders appeared to be a .380 cal and a .22 cal weapon. That's according to ballistics expert testimony.
What is also undisputed fact is that On Dec. 14, 1991, Pierce was picked up at Northcross Mall carrying a .22-caliber pistol and 16 bullets tucked into his jeans. Even though he claimed at the time he was interrogated that his "friend" used this weapon in the Yogurt Shop murders, subsequent ballistic tests ruled out this weapon. What it DOES show however is that your notion of him being some "innocent youth" who could never commit a murder is simply not true. He was running around illegally armed even in his teens, and later, as has been shown, committed two assaults on police officers besides his other run ins with the law.
As far as it being hard to believe that someone "would suddenly become extreme ruthless killers who were eager two shoot four teenage girls in the back of their heads"....you are exaggerating. No one said they were "eager". There are THOUSANDS of cases were suspects that were in the process of committing one type of crime....perhaps rape, perhaps robbery, burglary or many other types of crimes, who otherwise had never killed in prior crimes, DO wind up killing for one reason or another. Panic, fear of being ID'D, the crime turning from a simple robbery to a rape, etc etc....It happens all the time, all across the USA. So to me it's quite conceivable that 3-4 teenage boys thought they could possibly get away with rape or robbery and something went wrong, terribly wrong and they tried to cover their tracks by killing the victims and setting a fire. You may believe Maurice Pierce to be an innocent, framed youth. I believe he was a thug in the making early on, as his 1991 armed arrest and subsequent assaults show.

[DRorchia]

Originally Posted by theaustinescorts

The policeman who killed Pierce is also suspected of other criminal activity as well.

Such as?

[theaustinescorts]

I'm not prepared to re-try the Yogurt shop case in detail, however as you mentioned the .22 he was carrying was not linked to the crime. In fact nothing linked the 3 defendants to the crime. They were railroaded because he was found carrying a .22 in the neighborhood - that's all - and the DA needed someone to blame because of the publicity that surrounded this heinous crime. Just because someone carries a firearm doesn't mean they are a criminal - afterall I know many good people who carry firearms [with a permit or not].
The real perpetrators can never be caught because they were professional assassins who left no evidence behind. They were paid by the attorney who subsequently benefited.

The conclusion that the weapons used were suppressed is due to their being no one who heard the shots although people were in the area and the shop had glass window which would have permitted any loud noises to be heard. These calibers also come in subsonic versions but even those would have been heard under these circumstances.

Regarding the killings themselves, yes there are of course many examples of crimes where one crime escalates into a killing - but not like this.

In this case we're talking about someone systematically executing four teenage girls and then setting a raging fire. This was a cold-blooded premeditated execution of multiple females which occurred very quickly.
Only someone who has killed before and had planned this would have done it.

The killings were staged in such a way as to create maximum public outrage and revulsion. Because there were no adults on site the owner could be charged civilly which a slim reed of negligence for having left only minors there. Not only did the attorney make a fortune, but the owner of the Yogurt shop benefited also. Circumstances suggest that the owner and the attorney colluded.

Austin Judges and LE generally have a high degree of integrity today but this was not previously the case. In the 1950s and 1960s the Sheriffs, police, and several Judges were horribly corrupt and even participated in murder for hire, etc. The attorney who set up the Yogurt shop affair is an old character who comes from that era. He started as an assistant DA in the early 1960s and then became a criminal defendant attorney. Police corruption remained rife well into the 1980s, as hobbiests here should know - the leader of the APD vice squad in the '80s was the target of a successful FBI investigation. It's only in the last fifteen years or so that these kinds of staged crimes and other serious forms of insurance fraud and corruption came to an end in Travis County.

Regarding the policeman who killed Pierce you will have to do your own research regarding his reputation in Austin. I am certainly not prepared to publish what I've heard about him from others. If you know anyone then make your own inquires.

[DRorchia]

Originally Posted by theaustinescorts

I'm not prepared to re-try the Yogurt shop case in detail, however as you mentioned the .22 he was carrying was not linked to the crime. In fact nothing linked the 3 defendants to the crime. They were railroaded because he was found carrying a .22 in the neighborhood - that's all - and the DA needed someone to blame because of the publicity that surrounded this heinous crime. Just because someone carries a firearm doesn't mean they are a criminal - afterall I know many good people who carry firearms [with a permit or not].
The real perpetrators can never be caught because they were professional assassins who left no evidence behind. They were paid by the attorney who subsequently benefited.

You're right, just because someone carries a gun doesn't make them a criminal. Fine Mr. Pierce was into much more than simply unlawfully carrying a firearm. Such as stealing cars. Such as numerous assaults....so when you have someone that breaks the law on a consistent basis that makes them.....a CRIMINAL.

The conclusion that the weapons used were suppressed is due to their being no one who heard the shots although people were in the area and the shop had glass window which would have permitted any loud noises to be heard. These calibers also come in subsonic versions but even those would have been heard under these circumstances.

That's just not correct. A .22 or a .380 could easily go unheard if fired inside of a business. Especially in a back room of a business as was the case in the Yogurt Shop murders.

Regarding the killings themselves, yes there are of course many examples of crimes where one crime escalates into a killing - but not like this.

In this case we're talking about someone systematically executing four teenage girls and then setting a raging fire. This was a cold-blooded premeditated execution of multiple females which occurred very quickly.
Only someone who has killed before and had planned this would have done it.

The killings were staged in such a way as to create maximum public outrage and revulsion. Because there were no adults on site the owner could be charged civilly which a slim reed of negligence for having left only minors there. Not only did the attorney make a fortune, but the owner of the Yogurt shop benefited also. Circumstances suggest that the owner and the attorney colluded.

Austin Judges and LE generally have a high degree of integrity today but this was not previously the case. In the 1950s and 1960s the Sheriffs, police, and several Judges were horribly corrupt and even participated in murder for hire, etc. The attorney who set up the Yogurt shop affair is an old character who comes from that era. He started as an assistant DA in the early 1960s and then became a criminal defendant attorney. Police corruption remained rife well into the 1980s, as hobbiests here should know - the leader of the APD vice squad in the '80s was the target of a successful FBI investigation. It's only in the last fifteen years or so that these kinds of staged crimes and other serious forms of insurance fraud and corruption came to an end in Travis County.

The above paragraphs are simply conjecture on your part. You have no proof to support your theories as to who was involved or why. So I think you're correct that there's no sense in trying to re-try this case.

Regarding the policeman who killed Pierce you will have to do your own research regarding his reputation in Austin. I am certainly not prepared to publish what I've heard about him from others. If you know anyone then make your own inquires.

That's the funny thing...I HAVE done my own research in regards to this Officer. I simply can't seem to find anyone to speak negatively of him. Yes I do know people in the Department as well as in the CA and DA's office. After several phone calls, no one seems to have any knowledge as to what "criminal activity" you are referring to in regards to this Officer. That's why I was hoping you could share since I've seemed to hit a dead end in trying to find someone to support your allegation.

I'm sure you or perhaps others reading this thread may wonder why we seem to clash on these particular subjects. In my case it's quite simple.
I believe you shouldn't bash someone and even go so far as to claim they are involved in "criminal activity" when you have no proof to back that up. It's slander, plain and simple.
When all else fails TAE, and you're struggling with trying to figure out why it's not polite to accuse people on a public forum without being prepared to back it up, simply refer back to the old saying......"People in glass houses shouldn't throw rocks".

[theaustinescorts]

That particular business had large windows which would have conveyed the sound of any handgun round.

The Yogurt shop murders were twenty years ago, but all the basic facts remain. The perpetrators were never caught, and everyone knows who benefited. The circumstances are very compelling to those who are aware of them. There were other cases involving the same lawyer, and the evidence about them is massive to those who have seen it.

The series of high profile crimes in which the attorney mentioned was involved probably ended about with the Yogurt shop. During his activities here he was regarded by other members of the bar as "the Prince of Darkness" for his shocking behavior in producing alibi witnesses, bribing jurors, judges, etc. etc. In the 1970s he used to have an open bar in his office after hours and used to boast to other lawyers about what he was doing - local LE wouldn't do anything about it. There was actually a state law enacted in the early 1970s because he had the Sheriff in his back pocket and was able to get his number placed next to the phone in the county jail. Ronnie Earl used to refer to him as "the Racehorse Haines of Travis County," meaning that he was the one clearly guilty rich people turned to when they otherwise had no defense - he always used trickery to get them off. The 2005 Petition filed against him in the 1979 case is one of many bearing copious evidence, but local LE will not investigate anything related to him.

There are many people in this county who are aware of what went on in those years. Thank god they are long gone, but Pierce's killing at the hands of this officer, and the manner in which it is said to have come about, appears to me highly suspicious.

The attorney who engineered the Yogurt shop killings is now in his eightees and still practicing, although he doesn't have the strings to pull that he used to.

If you want a window as to the involvement of Travis co. judges in homicide for hire in the past google and read about Malcolm Wallace.

[DRorchia]

I wonder if you've noticed that on one hand you accuse the Police and DA's office of having NO evidence against Pierce and the other 3 suspects and that they were "railroaded". On the other hand you have no problem accusing others of being involved with no real evidence going so far as to accuse an attorney "engineered" the killings. Since by your own admission those involved can no longer "pull the strings they used to" and that corruption has been cleaned up in Austin, why then do you think Cold Case Detectives wouldn't be able to put a case together against the ones you accuse? Do you feel that the Police are incapable of reviewing settlements and looking at who benefited financially from this crime? All the old Homicide Detectives in this case are retired or no longer working Homicide. We have new judges, a new DA, fresh Homicide Detectives with no links whatsoever to these attorneys and old judges you mention. As I stated before, the case remains open so there's nothing standing in the way of any of your theories being looked at.

[theaustinescorts]

You already know that this forum is not capable of presenting evidence.

The purpose of this forum is to put forward opinions, hopefully sustained with cogent argument. However it is not possible to put forward here even the names of other people, much less the evidence you demand.

Unless a crime is caught on camera every description of it's cause by anyone is a "theory." Eyewitness testimony, confessions, circumstantial evidence and the like are all potentially flawed, and are put forward as evidence to bolster a particular case.

I've heard you use the word "proof," but proof is really only what any particular person may find persuasive enough for him to reach a conclusion - nothing more.

There are some conspiracies that are so sensitive in nature that LE dare not "go there."

When the implications of investigating an old crime involve dredging up widespread former corruption at high levels LE tends to find other things to do.

LE are not crusaders. They are just ordinary people at their jobs. They are human beings - not heroes. They can be good or they can be bad, but they operate in very bureaucratic settings - that much is constant.

btw I wish you a happy New Year. Best Wishes always.

[DRorchia]

You'd be surprised how many "crusaders" there are. While you may be correct in some of your statements that occurred in the past with both the Department and the judicial system, I think that many things today have changed. Officers are much less likely to let superiors bury things. I'm not sure if you remember the Mala Sangre investigation? Officers there believed that the truth needed to come out and filed lawsuits against their Superiors to make that happen. That was over 10 years ago and that trend has continued. Officers today are much more educated in the use of the media as well. Many have connections in the media and if they feel the public is being kept in the dark or that certain policies will work against the public interest, some of these Officers have no problem discreetly dropping dimes to the media.
I think I've mentioned before that I don't view Police Officers or our Military as "heroes" in the general sense. Are there Heroes among these professions? Sure. Acts of great courage and valor take place in these professions as they do in many others.
There's good and bad in every single profession. On this website too, you'll find good and bad hobbyists and providers. That's life.
The point I've been trying to make with you in these various posts and where I fundamentally disagree with you is when you make statements to the effect that the Department is flawed or corrupt as a whole or that Police in Austin go out of their way to use the most force simply "because they can". Many of the Department's policies today are designed not to protect the public, but to limit the Department's liability. Many Officers don't agree with this and oftentimes put their jobs at risk going above and beyond in order TO protect the public. That may seem ordinary to you but in doing so, many of these Officers have put their careers on the line. This applies to street level Officers as well as Detectives in investigations. Most of the "cleaning up" within the Department over the years has not been initiated from the outside as is the case in many other Police Departments (L.A., New York, etc etc) but rather it's occurred from the inside. From ordinary Officers standing up and saying..."this isn't right and we're going to do something about it". That's what has led to a Police Department in Austin that, when compared to other Departments, is recognized to be one of the better Departments in the state and in the nation. Is it a perfect Department? No. Show me any business, corporation or other entity with 1600+ employees that doesn't have some issues. However the fact is, there is no systemic corruption from the ground up and there are not constant "cover ups" every time they use force or are working a high profile case.

Happy New Year and the best for 2011 to you and all the ECCIE Community.