Prisoners with perks?

[buzzworm86]

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

Wichita is better yet!

Wi-shita what?

[London Rayne]

Originally Posted by TexTushHog

How about folks like lots of my clients who make minimum wage. Do they count? Do you think you could afford food, housing, transportation, daycare and insurance for you and your kids on $12,644/year -- minimum wage after payroll taxes? Do you think that those people "don't won't to work." For many people finding a minimum wage job that is full time, instead of part time, would be a dream come true. Especially in small rural towns.

Seriously, do you think it's only folks who can't work who don't have insurance? The insurance for one individual and their kids through my law firm costs around $750/Mo. You think that these folks making minimum wage can afford that?

Education is FREE dude...stop moaning about it. Not many people I know were born with a sliver spoon in their mouths, but they worked hard, went to school, and made it. Same goes for us hookers...we can either choose to do nothing but this, then make people like YOU feel sorry for us when we are sixty with nothing to show, OR we can to to school, and get a real job eventually. It's not someone else's problem if I choose to not do what I can do.

I am not saying hard working people don't deserve Health Care. If a guy IS working his butt off for min. wage, sure he does! He IS WORKING!

Like I said...another thread!

[Sensia]

CNBC is having this documentary airing tonight Billion's Behind Bars If your interested in watching when it airs tonight. The comments from people on the news clip for this are pretty enlightening and informative.

[waverunner234]

Originally Posted by London Rayne

I am so sick of hearing the bs about people who can't get jobs...these are people with clean records, fully functioning, and they can't get a job? Gimme a break lol. The only time I could not get a job, was when I was not looking hard enough for one.

Don't even get me started on lazy azz americans who don't want to work, yet want to live like a rock star. That's another thread.

Yes it's another thread but in what age do you live? What about all those job openings where for every open place 10 or more unemployed people apply?
Wake up, place yourself in the life of someone who has done a 1000 job applications and still no job, families that live in their car because there is no job that takes care of a house payment?
People who commit suicide because there is no job?
Sending your resume everywhere and just knowing that the future employer throws your resume out just because you passed high school 35 years ago? Even that college degree from 30 years ago doesn't get you a job.

WAKE UP AND GET REALISTIC

[TexTushHog]

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

Yeah, TTH, it's a problem, and only the federal government can fix it. Constitution? Fuggedaboudit! We don't need no stinkin' Constitution. You are so willing to help as long as someone else is paying for it.

What provision of the Constitution do you think prohibits the Congress from setting up a national health plan, pray tell? There is no doubt that Medicare and Medicaid are both Constitutional. Even the extremists who want to roll the interpretation of the Commerce Clause back 80 years and have the Obama health care plan concede that a single payer system would be Constitutional.

And who in the hell else do you contend can fix the problem of the those making modest incomes who can't afford health care other than the Federal Government. They can do it two ways. A single payer system or an employer mandate. What other solution do you have for my clients to get health care? I'd love to hear.

I've got one client right now who works full time minimum wage plus a quarter. No benefits. Got hurt and needs back surgery. Makes too much money to get Medicaid in Texas. Keeps her job because if she quits, she'll loose her car, her house (which is worth about $20,000), and maybe her kids. In lots of pain. Can't get back surgery to save her life. After the hospital lien was paid, I got her about $4,000 on her law suit ($25,000 limit on a car wreck case) without charging her a fee. Used the $4,000 to pay me back loans I advanced to keep from loosing her house and catch up on some bills from when she was off work. She has about $2,000 left from the settlement, but the surgury will cost around $80,000 for a lumbar fusion. I've got the doc willing to do the surgery and the hospital is willing to cut their fees. Implant company won't cut their costs. But the bill will still be around $35,000-40,000. What is she supposed to do? By the way, she works washing dishes and has a sixth grade education. Let me know so that I can tell her.

[CuteOldGuy]

So something is a problem, therefore the government must provide a solution. I wouldn't mind helping her if I was in your shoes, but I still don't think that forcing me to pay for her problem is right. I've got things wrong with me that I can't get fixed due to the expense. It's my problem, not yours or anyone elses.

I've already told you that I would support a single payer system on two conditions: 1. The Constitution is amended to allow such a program, and 2. There is no government official involved in health care decisions.

I know it's a problem. If government wants in, they should get all the way in with my two caveats. Otherwise, they should get all the way out.

By the way, the Commerce clause should be rolled back 200 years.

Why can't Texas adopt a Romney care type program? States don't have the restrictions that the Constitution places on the federal government.

Kind of rambling here, but thoughts keep coming. So far, your complaining about the implant company not willing to cut its cost. They aren't in business to cut costs. If they do that for everyone, there will be no more implant company. Have you thought of fund raisers? Different hospitals or companies? Do gooder foundations or faith based funds? You know, the kind of things that we used to do before government became the nanny.

You're not the only one who has had clients in those situations. At least you let her pay back some of the money you loaned her.

[TexTushHog]

I lost money representing her. And charity never paid for $80,000 worth of surgery for huge numbers of patients.

And what prevents Texas from doing this is that the people of the State of Texas are a bunch of selfish assholes who don't care one whit about their fellow citizens. Otherwise, we wouldn't have the lowest Medicaid reimbursement rates in the U.S.

The reason the government has to be involved is the peculiar economics of the health care market. It, like the financial markets, is a market that is set up for market failure. There is an entire subfield of economics devoted to this and it is one of the fields that classically is cited to lead to stable disequalibria.

Why do you think that every single industrial nation on the face of the earth except the U.S. has decided that their national government has to run their health care financing system? It's not just a funny coincidence. There is a reason that every single other civilized country doesn't leave something so important to markets where is is so patently obvious that market fail. We have over 40 million Americans who don't have any health insurance and 50 million more who are underinsured in the richest country on the face of the earth. That is just mind boggling and immoral. If we had any sense of decency we would hang our heads in shame.

[CuteOldGuy]

How many of those 40 million choose to not have insurance? Why should that choice be taken away from them?

The only reason there are other industrialized countries who can provide health care is because there is a United States. The Brits are moving away from the socialist model, as are some other European countries. It doesn't work in the long run. If you take the profit out of health care, you take the innovation out. Most of the innovation takes place here.

I've addressed the insurance issue in another thread.

Oh, I didn't say get charity for huge numbers of patients. I said get it for her. I was in a bind quite awhile ago. I went to my pastor and in just a few hours without any publicity, he had gotten donations of a very large amount of money for me. People like to give.

St Jude's Children's Hospital doesn't charge for care.

Shriner's Hospitals don't charge for care.

People LIKE helping others, but we have become so dependent on government, we have caused that generosity to atrophy in our culture. I'm just saying that you haven't exhausted your options.

You're in the 1%, why don't you foot the bill? If I was practicing, I could show you how to even make it tax deductible. Instead of always reminding us how rich you are, why not show us?

But then, I only have two conditions to be met and then I will jump on board with single payer. So I can be brought to your side on this. And I agree the status quo sucks.

[TexTushHog]

Well, I've got about ten clients that need surgery right now who don't have health insurance. So I can't pay for all of them. I'm not that wealthy. Probably about 2/3 of my clients don't have any insurance and I'll bet not more than one or two of the 150 or so that don't have insurance chose not to have it. I live in a town where the average household income is just under $23,000. I'd love to see a budget that you would draw up where the half of the people in the town who make less than that can afford insurance, rent a house, make a car payment, feed their two or three kids, etc.

And a lot of the folks I represent own automblies that cost them $1 - 3,000. And the price that they are charges is probably twice the blue book value, as it typical with car lots that do weekly self finance for folks with bad credit. Do you think that car will make it to St. Jude's Hospital. Hell, most of them can't make it to the next county to go to a specialist without the car breaking down.

I honestly don't think that people who live in urban areas understand what a poor rural area in America even looks like. Most have no concept. 29.4% of the folks here have less than a high school education. Another 35.2% have only a high school education. When you explain these statistics to lawyers from New York or California, they just look at you like you're pulling their leg. Until they come here and spend a week and meet some of our personal injury clients, they really don't believe us. Nobody is helping these folks with charity when it comes to big medical bills. The local food pantry runs out of food about twice a month. We get calls from the churches asking is we can give some money for that. Charity around here is for gas bills in the winter, light bills in the summer, and food year round. Not for back fusions.

[CuteOldGuy]

But you're in the 1%! $50k x 10 is what, half a mil? Pocket change for you 1%ers. Problem is, you want to put my money where your mouth is.