Grade inflation

[Rudyard K]

I'm not sure the universities...the ones with the big sports programs or the ones with the small sports programs...give a tinker's damn what those of you who don't fund their scholorships think should be the focus of the scholorships.

It is probably more important to them to know what the people who actually fund scholorships think should be the focus of the scholorship. And when that donor does state his/her focus...it can quite naturally be focused only on education if they agree with some of you.

Passing judgement on how another spends their money always amazes me. There is always plenty of advice to tell me how I should spend my money...but there is normally a shortfall on telling me how to make it.

[atlcomedy]

Originally Posted by Rudyard K

I'm not sure the universities...the ones with the big sports programs or the ones with the small sports programs...give a tinker's damn what those of you who don't fund their scholorships think should be the focus of the scholorships.

It is probably more important to them to know what the people who actually fund scholorships think should be the focus of the scholorship. And when that donor does state his/her focus...it can quite naturally be focused only on education if they agree with some of you.

Passing judgement on how another spends their money always amazes me. There is always plenty of advice to tell me how I should spend my money...but there is normally a shortfall on telling me how to make it.

Agree -- Don't like it when people tell others how to spend their money
(and although you didn't say it here others complained about how much a coach makes -- I have a problem with people bitching about how much others make -- obviously someone has decided they are worth it)

Disagree -- Although, I'm a huge proponent of collegiate athletics in general where I'll side with the naysayers is in many cases they are stakeholders, as taxpayers. Sure there are examples of schools where this isn't the case (e.g. the athletics program is self sufficient), but as I argued last evening, those are the vast minority of cases. As taxpayers, they do have a right to make their case.

[slackjawyokel]

Originally Posted by WTF

How many China PHD's would it take to bring in the money Mack Brown brought into UT's coffers? 100-200?....

Wow! The one China Doll that I have met is intimidating enough! 100-200 of them would probably take over the world!



In all seriousness my chance of convincing a largely Texas based crowd here that the money spent on football or other sports programs would be better spent elsewhere is about as likely as my chance of convincing the local Tea Party chapter the President Obama should be made a member of the hellofaguy club. Thats ok, to each their own.

[WTF]

Originally Posted by slackjawyokel

Wow! The one China Doll that I have met is intimidating enough! 100-200 of them would probably take over the world!


.

Well then , they could then dictate how scholarship money should be spent.

Originally Posted by atlcomedy

Agree -- Don't like it when people tell others how to spend their money
(and although you didn't say it here others complained about how much a coach makes -- I have a problem with people bitching about how much others make -- obviously someone has decided they are worth it)

Disagree -- Although, I'm a huge proponent of collegiate athletics in general where I'll side with the naysayers is in many cases they are stakeholders, as taxpayers. Sure there are examples of schools where this isn't the case (e.g. the athletics program is self sufficient), but as I argued last evening, those are the vast minority of cases. As taxpayers, they do have a right to make their case.

Atl gotta a point RK. Taxpayers fund the majority of college expenditure. And you have another good point, hell I'm funding one right now. 'Taint nobody gonna tell me who to pick as my lucky recipients! I mean for God sake , every college needs a great pair of Hooters on scholarship. Right? Am I right about that fella's? Somebody tell me my mola is not going to waste.

[China Doll]

Originally Posted by Rudyard K

Passing judgement on how another spends their money always amazes me. There is always plenty of advice to tell me how I should spend my money...but there is normally a shortfall on telling me how to make it.

I was under the impression that this was just a lively discussion. People saying that they think money for scholarships would be better used elsewhere is just an opinion. Perhaps you weren't referring to me underneath your umbrella of "judging others," but I believe that I can state my opinion without being judgmental at all.

As I said before, the reasons behind the allocation of funds to students unlikely to succeed in college are in the right places. I just believe that they would be better off in reaching their goals if they approached them differently. I don't see why other people can't express their opinions, either. I almost feel like you're talking about a different thread.

I don't feel as strongly as some of the others about the sports issue, but I'll tell you what I do have a problem with. I have a problem with the wrestling coach in a nearby school insisting that the professors pass his students even though they were clearly failing. You got in on a sports scholarship? Fine, but you shouldn't get the degree if you didn't earn it. I bet we can all agree on that.

(Ha ha, sorry. I was going to put a regular smiley face, but that one was too deliciously evil to resist!)

[China Doll]

Originally Posted by WTF

Well then , they could then dictate how scholarship money should be spent.

[oden]

This thread has taken a turn that I did not foresee but I will weigh in on something I think is important for all to consider. Athletics teach something that cannot be learned in the classroom. The greek ideal of mind and body is important and should be supported. There should be no free pass for any student athlete or art or band student; but to begrudge a scholarship that is awarded by the school to entice someone to attend a school given by that school and not a Federal or State entity is wrong. As a scholarship athlete myself I calculated the hours spent on practice, film, meetings, conditioning, travel, training room and sequestering in hotels before games, I would have been ahead by taking a full time job at less than minimum wage. That did not include summer workouts on my own to be in shape for the grind.
Did i have advantages? Yes. Does that have a damn thing to do about my statistics classes being more comprehensive than what they give now? No.
The false sense of accomplishment in our educational system is a real problem. Junk classes and teaching a political agenda is the problem. I should probably not pick on math as there seems to be a progression, probably led by calculators and computers that make that learning accelerated, but writing and literature, theory and creative thought are suffering.
Just the thoughts of a "jock".

[atlcomedy]

Originally Posted by China Doll

I was under the impression that this was just a lively discussion. People saying that they think money for scholarships would be better used elsewhere is just an opinion. Perhaps you weren't referring to me underneath your umbrella of "judging others," but I believe that I can state my opinion without being judgmental at all.

I don't think anyone is trying to censor discussion here. I won't try to speak for RK or anyone else, but I too believe no one else has the right to tell me how to spend my money or conversely should I tell them how to spend theirs (with the caveat that they are taking care of their family obligations)....

So if somebody wants to give $1M to the Golf Team instead of the Physics Dept. who am I to judge?

If someone wants to my an expensive sports car that is wholly unnecessary who am I to judge?

If someone wants to spend a lot of money on HDH's who am I to judge

Originally Posted by oden

This thread has taken a turn that I did not foresee but I will weigh in on something I think is important for all to consider. Athletics teach something that cannot be learned in the classroom. The greek ideal of mind and body is important and should be supported. There should be no free pass for any student athlete or art or band student; but to begrudge a scholarship that is awarded by the school to entice someone to attend a school given by that school and not a Federal or State entity is wrong. As a scholarship athlete myself I calculated the hours spent on practice, film, meetings, conditioning, travel, training room and sequestering in hotels before games, I would have been ahead by taking a full time job at less than minimum wage. That did not include summer workouts on my own to be in shape for the grind.
Did i have advantages? Yes. Does that have a damn thing to do about my statistics classes being more comprehensive than what they give now? No.
The false sense of accomplishment in our educational system is a real problem. Junk classes and teaching a political agenda is the problem. I should probably not pick on math as there seems to be a progression, probably led by calculators and computers that make that learning accelerated, but writing and literature, theory and creative thought are suffering.
Just the thoughts of a "jock".

Sorry the thread got off track....

The funding and appropriateness of athletic scholarships is one discussion but you provide a good reminder about the time commitment that comes with them. To that I'd simply add the NCAA has very restrictive guidelines about what work athletes can do.

[Rudyard K]

Originally Posted by WTF

Atl gotta a point RK. Taxpayers fund the majority of college expenditure. And you have another good point, hell I'm funding one right now. 'Taint nobody gonna tell me who to pick as my lucky recipients! I mean for God sake , every college needs a great pair of Hooters on scholarship. Right? Am I right about that fella's? Somebody tell me my mola is not going to waste.

I agree with the fact that there are always no universal answers for every situation...and therefore there are points to agree on...and disagree on. But you comment that "taxapyers fund the majority of college expenditures" is incorrect...at least in this state and using this state's public universities. But I think it is the belief of most people that pontificate about what is right and wrong. For instance, at my alma matter...about 1/3 of the cost to send a kid to school is funded by the state...about 1/3 by endowments...and about 1/3 by the student (or in your helpee's case, you. ) I knew those numbers from a few years back, and the state's portion was shrinikng every couple of years. My bet is, today, the state portion is less than 1/3. So, why does the 1/3rd payer have more voice than the 2/3rds payer?

[WTF]

Originally Posted by Rudyard K

. So, why does the 1/3rd payer have more voice than the 2/3rds payer?

Hey, I'm agreeing with you. Neither do I know the numbers. But a slight correction, it sounds like a battle between the 1/3's.

Hooray for those kids that fund their own education!

China Doll....no matter how you look at it for the most part, sports is what binds most to their school.

[Willen]

Those proportions are approximately correct in most states. Support through public sources (i.e. taxes) has been significantly declining for many years.

While there's a great philosophical argument about the 1/3 (in this case) telling institution show to spend their money, the courts so far have been clear about the law: any pulbic support makes you subject federal regulation on matters such as civil rights compliance.

[WTF]

Originally Posted by Willen

While there's a great philosophical argument about the 1/3 (in this case) telling institution show to spend their money, the courts so far have been clear about the law: any pulbic support makes you subject federal regulation on matters such as civil rights compliance.

Well there are few colleges left that are not told WTF to do.

http://mises.org/daily/82

The Supreme Court decision, Grove City College v. T. H. Bell, Secretary of the U.S. Department of Education, held that the student grants did constitute indirect aid to the College, and that this opened the College to regulation under the provisions of the Higher Education Act. Rather than accept such regulation, the College decided that it would no longer admit students with federal grants. ln order to continue to provide the needed student aid, it substituted scholarships financed with private funds.

[China Doll]

Originally Posted by WTF

China Doll....no matter how you look at it for the most part, sports is what binds most to their school.

Yes, this thread has educated me on that apparent truth.

[pjorourke]

Originally Posted by China Doll

Yes, this thread has educated me on that apparent truth.

See, sports are educational. Q.E.D.

[Rudyard K]

Originally Posted by WTF

Hey, I'm agreeing with you.

It can be hard to tell.