Stephanè Hessel on Occupy Wallstreet "Find the time for outrage"

[WTF]

Originally Posted by OliviaHoward

Medical spending is now 17.6% of the GDP. That IS 1/6th of the GDP. 17 x 6 = 102, and THAT'S what I said.

.

Do you think that something that makes up 17+% of GDP is small? That is wtf you said and that is wtf I took issue with. I do not think you would find a single economist that would agree with you on that statement. It is a huge part of the problem.

It along with SS and Defense make up the bulk of what government spends money on.

Originally Posted by OliviaHoward

Social Security and medicare are socialist programs, but they are a small percentage of our overall economy. Health care makes up one sixth, I think, of the economy, and medicare is only a percentage of that! Old peoples' supplementary income? What percentage of the GDP can that take up?

[dilbert firestorm]

With regards to comments on china.

They are not a communist state, their industry under complete state control isn't run that way anymore. since liberalization of the chinese economy and industry, it is run more like a fascist state. 1/2 or more of the industries are run by generals and communist party insiders.

[WTF]

Originally Posted by joe bloe

Fascism is when the government controls the private sector, not the other way around.

Not to be glib but really what does it matter? If government has power or big business controls government....for the little guy. Of course it matters to the feuding two.

But until the banking melt down, Milton and his followers thought moral hazard would favor the private sector running things prudent. What has happened is that private sector has found a way to privatize profits and socialize losses....and that my friends is Fascism to me. Call it what you want.

[WTF]

Originally Posted by dilbert firestorm

With regards to comments on china. They are not a communist state, their industry under complete state control isn't run that way anymore. since liberalization of the chinese economy and industry, it is run more like a fascist state. 1/2 or more of the industries are run by generals and communist party insiders.

dilbert, I have been trying to make fun of these folks that say it is a dictatorial/free market! Cracks me the fuc up.

I haven't made it that far in my teachings as of yet...

[dilbert firestorm]

with regards to comments on Japan. I'm not too familiar with their set up.

this is what I do know.

They are somewhat similar to Germany with their social program. Japan is very different culturally. one might be comparing apples and oranges here.

I think they are moderate on social spending. They do have a national health care system by all counts is pretty good. Not sure about their taxes, I think it is high, but not as high as Germany has theirs. I don't know if they have other social programs, but their health system gets more talk than anything else that they have.

also, japan's economy has been stagnant for several years. as far as I can tell they appear to be ok other than their Fukashima nuke crisis. they still have problems with their banks being voodooed.

[WTF]

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/27/bo...pagewanted=all
Here is a good book to read....maybe joe blow can read it too and see that it in not just socialism that has been killing the economy...

[joe bloe]

Originally Posted by WTF

Not to be glib but really what does it matter? If government has power or big business controls government....for the little guy. Of course it matters to the feuding two.

But until the banking melt down, Milton and his followers thought moral hazard would favor the private sector running things prudent. What has happened is that private sector has found a way to privatize profits and socialize losses....and that my friends is Fascism to me. Call it what you want.

Having the government in complete control of the private sector (fascism)is not desirable. Having big business control the government (crony capitalism) is not desirable either.

A sensible balance is what is necessary. The government should only regulate to the extent that it can without crippling the private sector's abilty to function. The proper relationship between government and private sector capitalism should be symbiotic. A thriving economy, free from burdensome regulations can produce sufficient tax revenue to fund a limted government restrained in its actions by the constitution.

The recent subprime banking crisis began with the federal government expanding the Community Reinvestment Act in the mid 90's. FNMA and FHLMC began agressively purchasing loans that did not meet traditional guidelines for credit worthiness.

Wallstreet certainly made matters worse by packaging mortgage backed securities and selling them as triple A investments; but this was done in an evironment where the federal goverment was signaling that lending to unqualified borrowers was someting they wanted. Wallstreet knew the fix was in and that they would not be restrained in their actions.

You can watch the video tape of Barney Frank and Maxine Waters telling an investigator that everything was fine at FNMA. We now know that FNMA and FHLMC dramatically understated the amount of subprime mortages on their books and perjured themselves before congress.

The federal government had sufficient regulatory authority to controll the abuses of the Wallstreet bankers at the time it occured. The government chose not to, because they were in favor of everyone being able to obtain mortgage financing whether they were capable or willing to repay the debt. This was not a sustainable policy and we are now experiencing the results.

[CuteOldGuy]

A balance between facism and crony capitalism? Add the right amount of hemlock, stir in some arsenic, and you've got a cocktail. I suggest we try liberty.

[joe bloe]

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

A balance between facism and crony capitalism? Add the right amount of hemlock, stir in some arsenic, and you've got a cocktail. I suggest we try liberty.

I guess I didn't make myself clear. I'm saying that the proper balance between government and the private sector would be neither fascism or crony capitalism.

It's a false choice to say that we have to have one or the other or even a combination of the two.

[WTF]

Originally Posted by joe bloe

I guess I didn't make myself clear. I'm saying that the proper balance between government and the private sector would be neither fascism or crony capitalism.

It's a false choice to say that we have to have one or the other or even a combination of the two.

You are living in a fantasy world.

Where is this free society that you speak of?

Tell me and I will take the first cloud there!


Look, when you find it let me know. I have to run do some last minute shopping and I am not logging on until after Christmas.

I hope all my liberal friends find what they are looking for, Peace and Joy and I hope we try and share it with our lump of coal right wingers ass wipes, after all this is the Holiday season and let us not give up hope on their wayward lost souls! So Merry Christmas to all and to all a Good night!

[dilbert firestorm]

wtf, you're still last minute shopping? damn, you're pathetic.

I did mine already so as to avoid the crowds.

[Guest050715-1]

Originally Posted by I B Hankering

...........................

Notice, it was an act of the state that disposed other Krupp heirs of their interests in the business and awarded the entire business to Gustav von Bohlen und Halbach’s son by Bertha, Alfried.

For every example of government winning the “good” fight, there are examples that counter that sentiment. The financial bailout was a clear victory by industry. They flew in on their private planes; got chastised; got their money and flew back to their ivory towers and resumed business; got their multi-million dollar bonuses for messing things up royally; and avoided prosecution. They live without prosecution, without being dismissed, and not at all like the Krug example because complicated, unethical laws are written solely for and to protect them. In effect, the banking industry is the handlers for the American politicians and therefore American coffers and American laws and policies.

I normally refer to it as the yoking up of industry and government. There are examples of industry winning and examples of government winning, but in the end, it is, in my opinion, a victory by industry is what old-school fascism is. Obamacare, the pharma-industry paying politicians to close down imports of pharmaceuticals from Canada, the automaker bail out, and on and on are examples of industry controlling our elected officials. The tail wags the dog.

Originally Posted by dilbert firestorm

with regards to comments on Japan. I'm not too familiar with their set up.

this is what I do know.

They are somewhat similar to Germany with their social program. Japan is very different culturally. one might be comparing apples and oranges here.

I think they are moderate on social spending. They do have a national health care system by all counts is pretty good. Not sure about their taxes, I think it is high, but not as high as Germany has theirs. I don't know if they have other social programs, but their health system gets more talk than anything else that they have.

also, japan's economy has been stagnant for several years. as far as I can tell they appear to be ok other than their Fukashima nuke crisis. they still have problems with their banks being voodooed.

That's kind of what I thought too. I was shocked when they were lumped into the socialist category. I do know that their government is heavily influenced by industrial leaders and they are quasi militant in their approach to civil and cultural matters.

[joe bloe]

Originally Posted by dilbert firestorm

With regards to comments on china.

They are not a communist state, their industry under complete state control isn't run that way anymore. since liberalization of the chinese economy and industry, it is run more like a fascist state. 1/2 or more of the industries are run by generals and communist party insiders.

I think Obama wants to copy the Chinese system. Remember the way he praised their infrastructure and bad mouthed our own during the summer Olympics.

The real danger of copying the Chinese economic system is not just a loss of our capitalist system, but the loss of our freedom.

If our economy completely crashes, I think the radical left will try to reboot the system with something resembling the Chinese system.

[WTF]

Originally Posted by dilbert firestorm

wtf, you're still last minute shopping? damn, you're pathetic.

I did mine already so as to avoid the crowds.

I'm done!

4k lighter but D O N E!...all wtf gotta go do is pick up the wrapped presents and pretend Santa Clause delivered them!

Olivia , you still think 17+% of our GDP is small? God Damn if that ain't the dumdest thing I heard on here since some nitwit said Obama was raised up in Indonisia!

Originally Posted by OliviaHoward

. He grew up in Indo. He just was born in Hawaii. .

Really....................Hmmm mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[joe bloe]

Originally Posted by WTF

I'm done!

4k lighter but D O N E!...all wtf gotta go do is pick up the wrapped presents and pretend Santa Clause delivered them!

Olivia , you still think 17+% of our GDP is small? God Damn if that ain't the dumdest thing I heard on here since some nitwit said Obama was raised up in Indonisia!


Really....................Hmmm mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Actually, according to Obama's (aka Barry Soetoro) autobiography "Dreams from My Father" , he was born in Honolulu. Then his mother took him to Seattle when he was two weeks old so that she could attend the University of Washington. Then she took him back to Hawaii. His mom, Stanley Ann Dunham-Obama remarried to Lolo Soetoro, her second Muslim husband whom she had met at the University of Hawaii. Actually she was never legally married to Barack Obama, Sr since he was still married to another woman in Kenya. The family moved to Indonesia where Obama attended public school from the age of five or six to the age of ten. Instruction in Islam was mandatory in Indonesian public schools and attendance was only allowed to Indonesian citizens. It is likely that little Barry was legally adopted by Lolo Soetoro at the age of five which would have automatically made him an Indonesian citizen and made his attendance in public schools possible. This would also explain why Barry went by the last name of Soetoro for several years. Obama was a dual citizen of Kenya and the US at the time of his birth, regardless of whether that was in Mombasa or Honolulu, since his father was a Kenyan. Obama would have been a dual citizen of the US and Kenya until the age of eighteen, at which time the Kenyan government requires dual citizens to choose between Kenyan citizenship and citizenship in any other country; we don't know if Barry renounced his American citizenship at that time, since he's never been asked.

Obama's mother sent him to live with his communist grandfather Stanley Dunham when he was ten due to the fact that Lolo Soetoro had grown conservative in his politics and she thought he would be a bad influence on young Barry. From the age of ten to the age of eighteen Barry attended an exclusive private school in Hawaii called Punahou. From there he went to Occidental (his roomate was a politically connected Muslim Pakastani who supported Obama financially), then Columbia and finally Harvard law school. No one has ever been interviewed who knew Obama at Columbia and his records have been sealed; we have only his word that he ever attended.

http://www.nationalreview.com/articl...rew-c-mccarthy