Which 21st century world leader most influenced history (so far)?

[themystic]

Originally Posted by soldierboy44

I say Bush because of the wars in the middle east which have had second and third order effects that no one saw occurring. Calling being blind or stupid, but the wars in the middle-east had and are still having a major effect on the world stage.

Papa Bush saw it coming. That's why he didn't go into Baghdad. He was 100% right. Cost him a second term

[Yssup Rider]

Yordan Alvarez

[lustylad]

Other - Steve Jobs.

"Are you getting this... it's one device!"

[lustylad]

Originally Posted by themystic

5th Greatest QB behind Montana, Johnny U, Lusty Lad and Joe Namath

Thanks mystic. What were Lustylad's stats?

[lustylad]

Originally Posted by bambino

He missed Tony Dorset, George Blanda, Jim Kelley, Johnny Lujack, Bobby Vinton, Christine Agulara, Micheal Keaton, Maurice Lucas.......

Actually Christine A. and Michael K. were on my list. And like I said - it was only a partial list of Burgh Greats.

[lustylad]

Originally Posted by SecretE

Ah, but they have evolved the model. While they still are a command economy with a totalitarian regime, they now command every single capitalist company, enticed by low costs of production and labor from the currency manipulation, who decides to set up shop in China. You make something in China, you have to share the IP of that product with them. Then, they can turn around, give said IP to a native company, fully under the thumb of the government, and drive the original company out of business...at least in that market/product sector. What you call "cheating", they call playing a superior game, playing off the greed of executives willing to sacrifice the long-term future of the companies they lead, for the short-term gains to their bonuses after showing record profits.

That's a generalization with a fair amount of truth in it. Every company's IT situation is different. Most firms may be willing to license or share the less valuable stuff but they aren't about to hand over their key formulas. And by the time the Chinese copy it we will have moved on and developed new technology that renders it obsolete. The Chinese are good at copying and mass production, not at creating or innovating.

[lustylad]

Originally Posted by SecretE

In any case, they are almost (if not) America's equal now economically.

Nonsense. China's GDP is little more than half the size of our own, and they're far behind on a per capita basis.

Plus their national output is skewed and distorted by state-controlled companies that are propped up by state banks that lend money irrespective of risk or profitability. What's the point of producing 6-8 times as much steel as we do, if it all goes into building empty high rises in ghost cities and other white elephants?

[lustylad]

Originally Posted by themystic

Papa Bush saw it coming. That's why he didn't go into Baghdad. He was 100% right. Cost him a second term

Brent Snowcroft advised Papa Bush against going all the way to Baghdad. A few years later, virtually the entire US foreign policy establishment and politicians on both sides of the aisle viewed this as a huge mistake. Now everyone looks back again and says it was the smart course. Funny how that works.

And no, it didn't "cost him a second term". Ross Perot and "read my lips" did.

[Jackie S]

My votes on Saddam Hussein.

His actions caused Desert Storm, is uncoopertive attitude after he was left in power caused Desert Freedom.

And I agree with Lusty. Ross Perot and "Read my lips. No new taxes" cost Papa Bush a second term.

[matchingmole]

Originally Posted by Jackie S

My votes on Saddam Hussein.

His actions caused Desert Storm, is uncoopertive attitude after he was left in power caused Desert Freedom.

And I agree with Lusty. Ross Perot and "Read my lips. No new taxes" cost Papa Bush a second term.

That was back when only one lie could cost a President a second term

[eccieuser9500]

Originally Posted by lustylad

Other - Steve Jobs.

"Are you getting this... it's one device!"