Great Ironies of Liberalism

[Guest092216]

Originally Posted by LordBeaverbrook

...(which is where we got so many of our great German artists, scientists, teachers and businessmen, thank you very much)....

..... interesting. I'm gonna read up on that.

Soooooo here's an idea!!! Why not base the individual on the individual. Problem solved. Their character, their authenticity, their history, their reputation. I will never understand why this isn't more revered by Americans, especially.

[LexusLover]

Originally Posted by thathottnurse

..... I will never understand why this isn't more revered by Americans, especially.

North, South, or Central?

[JCM800]

Originally Posted by Rossboss

Name something good to come out of Harvard. For Gods sake don't say Facebook or Obozo.

National Lampoon.

[Guest092216]

Originally Posted by LexusLover

North, South, or Central?

Just in general. But the south sticks out the most on that one.

[JD Barleycorn]

Originally Posted by i'va biggen

All white people were immigrants.

This idiotic statement kind of disqualifies you from participating in the discussion. Keep trying to fit in with normal people, you'll make it some day.

Even the so-called native Americans immigrated from someplace else. In this case over the Siberian connection from Asia.

[JD Barleycorn]

Originally Posted by LordBeaverbrook

Ok, do you know how utterly foolish you sound here? Where do you think the Jews came from? They weren't from the native Germanic tribes that made up most of the German people prior to German unification. That would make them what? IMMIGRANTS right? The Nazis also killed Gypsies who were what? IMMIGRANTS too! Oh, yes, they also killed gays and communists as well who were in many cases Germans. So yes, more than just indirectly, the Holocaust was about immigration and it caused a great deal of Jewish emigration which necessarily entailed immigration on the other end (which is where we got so many of our great German artists, scientists, teachers and businessmen, thank you very much).

In reality humans have been immigrants for pretty much the entirety of human history (the only place we really haven't been immigrants is the Great Rift Valley) far beyond just written history of civilization. Humans immigrated into Neanderthal territory, bred with them and took over at one point (Europe anyone?) Only in the last sixty or so yeas did anyone but diplomats ever have to do anything to emigrate and become an immigrant except show up. Now that is true libertarianism!

Only diplomats had to have passports and visas much less green cards or citizenship papers. Yes, there were some racially based immigration laws prior to WWII and the U.S. was one of the worst variously outlawing Asians, Mexicans and Africans at various times in our history, but the main point is that "illegal immigration" is a pretty new concept that has never in human history been able to be enforced. It's kinda like making a law to stop people fucking to put it terms anyone on this site can understand. I doubt it can ever be enforced (never has yet) so everyone might outta find a liberal who has an idea for how it can be controlled to manage the more unsavory aspects of human population movements and give that a try (it won't be perfect but if it works at all it can be improved).

Do you really think this was about race? Remember the Nazis venerated the Arayans and they were not Germanic. I'll save you to find out who they are but they were not Germanic. In fact where did the Germans come from?

No, this was not about race. There were thousands of black expatriots living in Paris whent the Germans showed up and tens of thousans of Algerian nationals serving their military who got captured with the fall of France. They did not end up in camps and they were not shot out of hand. It was the widely percieved notion by many Europeans that the Jews either killed Jesus or controlled all the money which meant that they were responsible for all the ills of the world. The gypsies...they were considered to be thieves, layabouts, kidnappers, and practicisioners of the occult. The communists... that was political and fear of the Soviets. The gays... they helped to build the Nazi party and then their lifestyle was an affront to regular Germans so the Nazis dumped them...hard.

[JD Barleycorn]

Originally Posted by LordBeaverbrook

OK, dumbass, just the Nobel Prize winners, any more questions? Now STFU.

Theodore Roosevelt College 1880 Nobel Peace Prize
Philip W. Anderson (born 1923) College 1943; Ph.D. 1949 Physicist; Nobel Prize in Physics winner (1977) [1]
Christian B. Anfinsen (1916–1995) Ph.D. 1943 Biochemist; Nobel Prize in Chemistry winner (1972) [2]
J. Michael Bishop (born 1936) Ph.D. 1962 Immunology; Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine winner (1989)
Percy W. Bridgman (1882–1961) College 1904; A.M. 1905; Ph.D. 1908; Professor Physicist; Nobel Prize in Physics winner (1946) [3]
Ralph Bunche (1904–1971) A.M. 1928; Ph.D. 1934 Diplomat; Nobel Peace Prize winner (1950) [4]
Mario Capecchi (born 1937) Ph.D. 1967 Geneticist; Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine winner (2007)
Martin Chalfie (born 1947) College 1969, PhD. 1979 Chemist; Nobel Prize in Chemistry winner (2008)
Donald J. Cram (1919–2001) Ph.D. 1947 Chemist; Nobel Prize in Chemistry winner (1987) [5]
Edward Adelbert Doisy (1893–1986) Ph.D. 1920 Biochemist; Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine winner (1943)
T. S. Eliot (1888–1965) College 1909; A.M. 1910; Ph.D. (not conferred) 1914 Poet; Nobel Prize in Literature winner (1948) [6]
John Franklin Enders (1897–1985) Ph.D. 1930 Scientist; Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine winner (1954) [7]
Daniel Carleton Gajdusek (1923–2008) PhD. 1946 Physician; Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine winner (1976)
Walter Gilbert (born 1932) College 1953; professor Molecular biologist; Nobel Prize in Chemistry winner (1980) [8]
Sheldon Lee Glashow (born 1932) Ph.D. 1959; professor Physicist; Nobel Prize in Physics winner (1979) [9]
Roy J. Glauber (born 1925) College 1946; Ph.D. 1949; Professor Physicist; Nobel Prize in Physics winner (2005) [10]
Al Gore (born 1948) College 1969 Vice President of the United States; Global Climate Change activist; Nobel Peace Prize winner (2007)
Dudley R. Herschbach (born 1932) A.M. 1956; Ph.D. 1958; Professor Chemist; Nobel Prize in Chemistry winner (1986) [11]
George H. Hitchings (1905–1998) PhD. 1933 Physician; Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine winner (1988)
Roald Hoffman (born 1937) Ph.D. 1962 Chemist; Nobel Prize in Chemistry winner (1981) [12]
H. Robert Horvitz (born 1947) A.M. 1972; Ph.D. 1974 Biologist; Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine winner (2002) [13]
Eric Kandel (born 1929) College 1948 Neuropsychiatry; Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine winner (2000)
Jerome Karle (born 1918) A.M. 1938 Physical chemist; Nobel Prize in Chemistry winner (1985) [14]
Martin Karplus (born 1930) College 1950 Chemist; Nobel Prize in Chemistry winner (2013)
Henry Kissinger (born 1922) College 1950, PhD. 1954 Political science; Nobel Peace Prize winner (1973)
William S. Knowles (born 1917) College 1939 Chemist; Nobel Prize in Chemistry winner (2001) [15]
Walter Kohn (born 1923) PhD. 1948 Theoretical physics; Nobel Prize in Chemistry winner (1998)
Roger D. Kornberg (born 1947) College 1967 Nobel Prize in Chemistry winner (2006) [16]
Eric Maskin (born 1950) College 1972; A.M. 1974; Ph.D. 1976 Nobel Prize in Economics winner (2007) [17]
David Morris Lee (born 1931) College 1952 Physicist; Nobel Prize in Physics (1996) [18]
Craig Mello (born 1960) Ph.D. 1962 Biologist; Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine winner (2006)
Merton Miller (1923–2000) College 1944 Economist; Nobel Prize in Economics winner (1990) [19]
George Minot (1885–1950) College 1908; Medical 1912 Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine winner (1934) [20]
David A. Morse (1907–1990) Law 1932 Nobel Peace Prize winner (1969) [21]
Ben Roy Mottelson (born 1926) Ph.D. 1950 Physicist; Nobel Prize in Physics winner (1975) [22]
William P. Murphy (1892–1987) Medical 1922 Physician; Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine winner (1934) [23]
Joseph E. Murray (born 1919) Medical 1943 Surgeon; Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine winner (1990) [24]
Roger Myerson (born 1951) College 1973, Ph.D. 1976 Economist; Nobel Memorial Prize in Economic Sciences winner (2007)
Barack Obama (born 1961) Law 1991 President of the United States; Nobel Peace Prize winner (2009) [25]
Bertil Ohlin (1899–1979) A.M. 1923 Economist; Nobel Memorial Prize in Economic Sciences winner (1977)
Saul Perlmutter (born 1959) College 1981 Astrophysics; Nobel Prize in Physics winner (2011)
Edward Mills Purcell (1912–1997) A.M.; Ph.D.; Professor Physicist; Nobel Prize in Physics winner (1952) [26]
Theodore W. Richards (1868–1928) Ph.D. 1888; Professor Chemist; Nobel Prize in Chemistry winner (1914) [27]
Adam Riess (born 1969) Ph.D. 1996 Astrophysics; Nobel Prize in Physics winner (2011)
Frederick C. Robbins (1916–2003) Medical 1940 Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine winner (1954) [28]
James Rothman (born 1950) Ph.D, 1976 Cell biologist; Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine winner (2013)
Paul Samuelson (born 1915) A.M. 1936; Ph.D. 1941 Economist; Nobel Prize in Economics winner (1970) [29]
Thomas J. Sargent (born 1943) Ph.D. 1968 Economist; Nobel Memorial Prize in Economic Sciences winner (2011)
Thomas Schelling (born 1921) Ph.D. 1951 Economist; Nobel Memorial Prize in Economic Sciences winner (2005)
Brian Schmidt (born 1967) Ph.D. 1993 Astrophysics; Nobel Prize in Physics winner (2011)
Lloyd Shapley (born 1923) College 1948 Economist; Nobel Prize in Economics winner (2012) [30]
Christopher A. Sims (born 1942) College 1963 Ph.D. 1968 Economist; Nobel Memorial Prize in Economic Sciences winner (2011)
Ellen Johnson Sirleaf (born 1938) HKS 1971 President of Liberia; Nobel Peace Prize winner (2011) [31]
Vernon L. Smith (born 1927) Ph.D. 1955 Economist; Nobel Prize in Economics winner (2002) [32]
Robert M. Solow (born 1924) College 1947; A.M. 1949; Ph.D. 1951 Economist; Nobel Prize in Economics winner (1987) [33]
A. Michael Spence (born 1943) Ph.D. 1972 Economist; Nobel Prize in Economics winner (2001) [34]
William Howard Stein (1911–1980) College 1933 Biochemist; Nobel Prize in Chemistry winner (1972) [35]
Ralph M. Steinman (1943–2011) Ph.D. 1968 Immunology; Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine winner (2011)
Thomas A. Steitz (born 1940) Ph.D. 1966 Biochemistry; Nobel Prize in Chemistry winner (2009)
James B. Sumner (1887–1955) College 1910; Ph.D. 1914 Chemist; Nobel Prize in Chemistry winner (1946) [36]
Joseph Hooton Taylor, Jr. (born 1941) Ph.D. 1968 Astrophysics; Nobel Prize in Physics winner (1993)
E. Donnall Thomas (born 1920) College 1941; A.M. 1943; Ph.D. 1946 Physician; Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine winner (1990) [37]
James Tobin (1918–2002) College 1939; A.M. 1940 Economist; Nobel Prize in Economics winner (1981) [38]
Roger Y. Tsien (born 1952) College 1972 Biochemistry; Nobel Prize in Chemistry winner (2008)
Thomas H. Weller (born 1915) Ph.D. 1940 Virologist; Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine winner (1954) [39]
Kenneth G. Wilson (born 1936) College 1956 Physicist; Nobel Prize in Physics winner (1956) [40]
John H. van Vleck (1899–1980) Ph.D. 1922; Professor Physicist; Nobel Prize in Physics winner (1977) [41]
Harold E. Varmus (born 1939) A.M. 1962 Scientist; Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine winner (1989) [42]
David J. Wineland (born 1944) Ph.D. 1970 Scientist; Nobel Prize in Physics winner (2012)

Did you really mean to include Al Gore Jr. in your cut and paste? Kind of detracts from your case don't you think?

[I B Hankering]

Originally Posted by JD Barleycorn

Did you really mean to include Al Gore Jr. in your cut and paste? Kind of detracts from your case don't you think?

Al Gore? What about Odumbo's? A truly fraudulent award if there ever was one.

[JD Barleycorn]

So back to the OP. Why can't we pick and choose who comes into the country and more importantly, who we allow to become citizens? I haven't heard anyone promote an argument for that. Here is my input; why don't we have a negative parameter. We don't want criminals, child molesters, or dictators. We don't want anyone who profited from the misery of others so we don't need government officials of dictatorships. We don't want anyone who can't take care of themselves or their families.

Of course, we would have to send back all the German rocket scientists, chemists, physicists, and government officials that we sheltered like the Shah of Iran...

Okay, lets make this simple. No actors or muscians for any other country especially Justin Bieber.

[Guest092216]

Hey now. The beebs just needs better handlers.

[i'va biggen]

Originally Posted by JD Barleycorn

This idiotic statement kind of disqualifies you from participating in the discussion. Keep trying to fit in with normal people, you'll make it some day.

Even the so-called native Americans immigrated from someplace else. In this case over the Siberian connection from Asia.

Please tell me you really aren't that dumb.

[Jewish Lawyer]

Originally Posted by thathottnurse

JL, I'm sure I'm not the first or the last person to point this out, but objectively, your disposition concerning political/social/cultural issues is right in line with the Hitler's selling points during the birth of the Nazi party. Congrats on bringing ignorance and intolerance around full circle.

Ftr, I'm a libertarian so save the liberal bashing, it doesn't apply here. Thanks.

Get real - it is hardly a great crime to insist we bring in people to the US that will help us get better. Every other country in the world, including all the countries that surpass us in freedom, quality of life, average income, longevity, and student scores on standardized tests make judgements about who can become a citizen. It is a sovereign right of any nation.
You are a nurse - how many basket cases/train wrecks got dumped in your hospital that Mexico couldn't take care off, sent them here on a bus, and got them free medical care?
How many immigrants do you spend time with for free?
You make them pay, as is your right. Our country should make them pay, also.

[Guest092216]

I judge people individually. Especially when providing care. You should try it some time.

[JohnnyCap]

Originally Posted by JD Barleycorn

So back to the OP. Why can't we pick and choose who comes into the country and more importantly, who we allow to become citizens? I haven't heard anyone promote an argument for that. Here is my input; why don't we have a negative parameter. We don't want criminals, child molesters, or dictators. We don't want anyone who profited from the misery of others so we don't need government officials of dictatorships. We don't want anyone who can't take care of themselves or their families.

Of course, we would have to send back all the German rocket scientists, chemists, physicists, and government officials that we sheltered like the Shah of Iran...

Okay, lets make this simple. No actors or muscians for any other country especially Justin Bieber.

I made a perfectly sound argument, but you didn't like it so you called me disgusting and went off on a tangent.

Originally Posted by Jewish Lawyer

Get real - it is hardly a great crime to insist we bring in people to the US that will help us get better. Every other country in the world, including all the countries that surpass us in freedom, quality of life, average income, longevity, and student scores on standardized tests make judgements about who can become a citizen. It is a sovereign right of any nation.
You are a nurse - how many basket cases/train wrecks got dumped in your hospital that Mexico couldn't take care off, sent them here on a bus, and got them free medical care?
How many immigrants do you spend time with for free?
You make them pay, as is your right. Our country should make them pay, also.

I just heard the other day that the term 'basket case' originated when veteran quadriplegics had to be carried in baskets. Those bastards.

In contrast to your argument calling for our society to get better by bringing in quality free agents and weeding out the undesirables, I say a greater society would be achieved by having open tryouts and building from within. But when I do you go off on a tangent and accuse me of wanting to establish worldwide welfare.

[Old-T]

Originally Posted by I B Hankering

Al Gore? Whit wast about Odumbo's? A truly fraudulent award if there ever was one.

That was far less an award actually given to Obama as it was a very clearly directed insult to Bush-2, Cheney, Rove, Rice, etc. You may not agree it was deserved, but that is clearly what it was. ANY non-Republican who won the election would have received that prize.