CHRIS COMO: "OUR RIGHTS DON NOT COME FROM GOD"

[WTF]

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

"Endowed by their Creator" leaves open who the Creator is. It was written that way on purpose. You can believe it is God, Nature, or even yourself. agree The point is that humans have rights because humans exist. Those rights are inherent in your existence. They are not conferred by any government or other tribunal. Therefore, they cannot be taken away without violating you basic human rights. The purpose of government is to protect those rights, not create them. Those rights existed before government.

I agree with everything except the propose of government. If you rely on government to protect your so called rights....then you have already lost them.

[Jackie S]

Originally Posted by WTF

I agree with everything except the propose of government. If you rely on government to protect your so called rights....then you have already lost them.

We rely on our Constitution, the Supreme Law of The Land, to protect our Rights, not the Government.

It is only when people are willing to give up freedoms for security, or an Obama Phone, that these rights are endangered.

Which Founding Father said "the Government that says it can give you anything you want can also take away everything you have".

It's up for debate who a tally coined that phrase, but it rings as true today as it did 200+ years ago.

[Yssup Rider]

You're a fucking idiot Jackie. The fucking constitution is a DOCUMENT, the rule book for how our government is to operate.

The GOVERNMENT interprets, modifies and enforces the fucking constitution at the will of the American people.

It is a goddamned document which defines the rights this country gives its citizens. Written by men for men. The Obama phone discussion, indicates just how shallow your understanding of this concept is.

God did not write the fucking constitution. Nor did God author the morality of the 18th Century, when the fucking a constitution was written by a bunch of aristocrats and slave owners. In fact, You'd be hard-pressed to produce any scientifically proven argument that any deity gave us jack shit. The vagueness of the constitution could be interpreted a number of ways, but I theorize that at the time of its writing that those words might have been a disclaimer as much as anything else.

it is the disingenuousness of subsequent generations that we see today. After all, if God/Bible/Founding Fathers said it, it must be true, right?

This is, and continues to be, one of the more idiotic discussions I've seen on here in a while.

Why aren't we discussing whether Jesus was black or white? Or whether the earth is round? or creationism?

[Whirlaway]

So was Como right when he said; rights don't come from God, but from collective decision by man?

Originally Posted by Yssup Rider

You're a fucking idiot Jackie. The fucking constitution is a DOCUMENT, the rule book for how our government is to operate.

The GOVERNMENT interprets, modifies and enforces the fucking constitution at the will of the American people.

It is a goddamned document which defines the rights this country gives its citizens. Written by men for men.

God did not write the fucking constitution. Nor did God author the morality of the 18th Century.

This is, again, one of the more idiotic discussions I've seen on here in a while.

Why aren't we discussing whether Jesus was black or white? Or whether the earth is round?

[Yssup Rider]

who is Como?

[Whirlaway]

Cuomo, did he get it right?

[Yssup Rider]

LMAO! How Many times did you fuck that up, Whir-LIE-turd? Fifty one posts in, you finally got it right.

Back to the question. I don't know if I agree with every word Gov. CUOMO says on this subject (or any other subject for that matter) but if the question is: do I agree that our rights as Americans were granted by man and not by God? Then my answer is YES, absolutely.

Since you brought this silliness up, how about proving me wrong.

[Whirlaway]

I can't prove you are wrong anymore than I can prove you are right. I am trying to understand it. You might convince me your viewpoint is right.

So you believe that our bundle of rights are given to us thru some consensus between men (and women)?

By "consensus" aren't you saying those bundle of rights are up for debate - what is included and what is not?

[Yssup Rider]

I didn't say consensus, did I?

[Jackie S]

Originally Posted by Yssup Rider

You're a fucking idiot Jackie. The fucking constitution is a DOCUMENT, the rule book for how our government is to operate.

The GOVERNMENT interprets, modifies and enforces the fucking constitution at the will of the American people.

It is a goddamned document which defines the rights this country gives its citizens. Written by men for men. The Obama phone discussion, indicates just how shallow your understanding of this concept is.

God did not write the fucking constitution. Nor did God author the morality of the 18th Century, when the fucking a constitution was written by a bunch of aristocrats and slave owners. In fact, You'd be hard-pressed to produce any scientifically proven argument that any deity gave us jack shit. The vagueness of the constitution could be interpreted a number of ways, but I theorize that at the time of its writing that those words might have been a disclaimer as much as anything else.

it is the disingenuousness of subsequent generations that we see today. After all, if God/Bible/Founding Fathers said it, it must be true, right?

This is, and continues to be, one of the more idiotic discussions I've seen on here in a while.

Why aren't we discussing whether Jesus was black or white? Or whether the earth is round? or creationism?

I stand by what I said.

[Whirlaway]

No. So, how does man define these "granted" bundle of rights, if not thru consensus?

Does "endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights" conform with your thinking on the origin of these rights?

Originally Posted by Yssup Rider

I didn't say consensus, did I?

[UnderConstruction]

Originally Posted by Whirlaway

No. So, how does man define these "granted" bundle of rights, if not thru consensus?

Does "endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights" conform with your thinking on the origin of these rights?

Why would it? A man SAYS that rights came from some sky daddy? If the rights were conferred by some deity, why do you need man to state it to make it so? It was already the case before man stated it. If it's true.

[Whirlaway]

Your post makes no sense.

Originally Posted by UnderConstruction

Why would it? A man SAYS that rights came from some sky daddy? If the rights were conferred by some deity, why do you need man to state it to make it so? It was already the case before man stated it. If it's true.

[UnderConstruction]

Originally Posted by Whirlaway

Yes. Bingo.

Tell it to Como, he thinks they come frlm man acting collectively..

Laws come from men acting collectively. And he's not entirely wrong, some rights do come from man. Basic rights come from nature, from existence, but once you move to more nuanced rights, that's where man comes in. Your problem is that you have an all or nothing view on it. That's binary thought. You need to try and understand that not every situation can be viewed that way. There's nuance that exists and the better you understand that, the easier it is to see things for what they are. Why do you care so much what this guy says anyway?

[UnderConstruction]

Originally Posted by Whirlaway

Your post makes no sense.

If the rights come from existence, then why does man saying it somehow make it more true? the basic right to freedom comes from existence.