Separate but not even close to equal

[Jacuzzme]

Can we do Asians now?

[1blackman1]

I've done many an asian.

[ICU 812]

In the spirit of the hijack:

So then, why is there no affirmative action push for more AA-MPs? Or Pakistani Spas?

[adav8s28]

Originally Posted by ICU 812

In the spirit of the hijack:

So then, why is there no affirmative action push for more AA-MPs? Or Pakistani Spas?

Because the activities that occur at and MP are not legal (unless you are talking about one the seven legal counties in the state of Nevada).

Remember the owner of the New England Patriots was charged for solicitation at an AMP for either asking for or getting a blow job. Not sure what his lawyer did to help him beat the charges. The point is if MP's were totally legal, Bob Kraft ( the Patriots owner) would not have charged been with anything.

[biomed1]

To Return to the Original Topic . . .

#6 - Respect the topics presented by those who start a thread. Attempts to derail a thread or change it's direction is referred to as thread hijack and will be discouraged. Attempts to guide a thread in the right direction are appreciated, while responses to posts which hijack a thread are not.

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by adav8s28

My main man Tiny, here is little history lesson for you. Southern democrats who were racists like "Strom Thurman" (The segregationist who had a child with a Black woman) started to leave the democratic for the republican party as far back as 1948 when Northern democrat Hubert Humphey was giving speeches about civil rights for black people. Not much happened as a result of those speeches. President Truman integrated the military for WW2. The bulk of the party switching happened after 1965 when LBJ signed the Civil Rights Act into law. Southern democrats left the democratic party for the Republican Party. A
perfect example, Senator Strom Thurman. Baseball player Jackie Robinson, did the reverse. He left the Republican party for the democratic party.

Regarding your statement that HBCU's should desegregate. White Students can attend an HBCU if they want to. Last years Jackson St football team that was coached by Dion Sanders (who is now at Colorado Univ) the starting tight end was a white player. He is 100% Caucasian. No AA mix like some of the providers put in their ads (LOL).

Tiny, you are still tied for first place as the Best Amateur Virologist on Eccie.Net. You do know how to hobby too. Madison May is a top tier girl.

Hi Adav8s28, I'm actually tied with you and Ducbutter for second place. Red Dog is #1. He's modest though so you might not know.

Yes, white students can attend Southern University, the particular HBCU we're talking about, but at the undergraduate level not many do. From a previous post in the thread, here are the demographics of the undergraduate student body,

Black or African American 4,244
Multi-Ethnic 80
White 63
Unknown 60
International 44
Hispanic 33
Asian 11
Pacific Islander 4

So in practice, but not as a result of law or regulation, the undergraduate university is segregated.

As to the rest of your post, here's a reply to Blackman who said something similar to you, from some months ago. Based on my personal experience and knowledge of Texas history, I'm not seeing what you're describing here.

Originally Posted by Tiny

...I know it happened in other states, but I can't think of a single prominent Texas Democrat who switched sides because of race. The ones who did, like Phil Gramm, Kent Hance, and Rick Perry, did so during the Reagan Revolution and afterwards.

My father's side of the family were racist Democrats, and they mostly remained racist Democrats until their dying days.

My Aunt, a lifelong Democrat, was walking on the beach in Galveston and saw a mixed race child. She said "They should just kill that child." That makes me cringe, even more so now that I have a mixed race son.

[dilbert firestorm]

Originally Posted by adav8s28

I wrote "southern democrats" switched parties. Not just the ones that held office. The switch did not happen in one particular year. It started in 1948 when Northern Democrat Hubert Humphrey in speeches at political conventions started talking about Civil rights for black people. The bulk of the "Switch" occurred in after 1965 (The year LBJ signed the Civil Right Act into Law).

Southern Democrats (the voters) left the democratic party for the republican party after the leaders in the democratic party worked to get the Civil Rights Act passed. Why do you think almost the entire "Deep South" votes for the Republican candidate in most presidential elections from say after 1965. Of course slick Willie "Bill" Clinton was an exception.

The only fact you need is Northern Democrat Hubert Humphrey was the first (with name recognition)to start talking about Civil rights for black people back in 1948.

name names ada!

[1blackman1]

Originally Posted by Tiny

Hi Adav8s28, I'm actually tied with you and Ducbutter for second place. Red Dog is #1. He's modest though so you might not know.

Yes, white students can attend Southern University, the particular HBCU we're talking about, but at the undergraduate level not many do. From a previous post in the thread, here are the demographics of the undergraduate student body,

Black or African American 4,244
Multi-Ethnic 80
White 63
Unknown 60
International 44
Hispanic 33
Asian 11
Pacific Islander 4

So in practice, but not as a result of law or regulation, the undergraduate university is segregated.

As to the rest of your post, here's a reply to Blackman who said something similar to you, from some months ago. Based on my personal experience and knowledge of Texas history, I'm not seeing what you're describing here.

Clearly you don’t understand the concept of segregation. A little history lesson. Segregation wasn’t by choice. It was because whites made laws and decisions that blacks could not attend schools like LSU. Prior to the 1950s they had ZERO black students. Even though black students wanted to attend. That’s called segregation. It wasn’t just a practical effect, it was enforced by whites.

Whites can and could always attend Southern, though they chose and continue to choose not to. That is not segregation. In fact, whites could tomorrow determine to out enroll blacks and as a state institution nothing could be done to stop that from happening. Again, not segregation.

Now, I understand your point but as with most white folks you fail to understand the effect of your words in trying to create a false equivalence. Which is exactly what you’re trying to create, sadly. There’s zero comparison between schools being created for minorities because whites were hell bent on living their racism and excluded blacks from attending the same schools they did and whites making the choice at the undergrad level to not attend those schools which were always open to them.

Oddly enough though, they choose in larger numbers (as a percentage) to attend the black schools professional programs like SU Law Center. Again, fully open to them. In fact in comparing SU Law Center and LSU Law Center, there’s vastly more whites at SU than there are blacks at LSU. If any school remains segregated (likely as a result of historical racism) is LSU’s law school.

[Tiny]

I don't understand why you're arguing with me. It appears to boil down to your definition of "segregation", and yeah, I may have chosen words poorly.

If an institution of learning isn't providing a quality education to its students you either need to bring standards up or close the institution. You've pointed out that Southern University is underfunded compared to LSU and I've pointed out that salaries of alumni of SU are lower. Based on that, I'm assuming a SU undergraduate degree isn't worth as much as an LSU degree. You say the reason is because "whites were hell bent on living their racism and excluded blacks from attending the same schools they did and whites making the choice at the undergrad level to not attend those schools which were always open to them." Fair enough. One solution is to raise standards at SU, through additional funding and other measures. You do that and the demographics of the SU undergraduate program will become more like the SU law school. The other solution is close down the undergraduate program and accommodate the students at LSU and other universities.

You made a good point in an earlier post, about legacies. Fair enough, if applied to say a university like Howard or Morehouse. Is it valid for Southern University? I really don't know. You probably do. I'm probably going to piss off someone here by saying this, but while the argument is valid for Texas A&M and the University of Texas, it's not for, say, Tarleton State University. All three of the Texas universities have about the same racial demographics. I'd suspect Southern University fits into the Tarleton category -- you're not going to push your kid to go to Tarleton because you went there.

[1blackman1]

So let’s just agree to this. The schools should be properly funded. Not sure where Louisiana will get the 1b SU has been shorted over the years (particularly with a Republican governor and state legislature) but SU should be made whole so their students can gain equal education.

How’s that?

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by 1blackman1

So let’s just agree to this. The schools should be properly funded. Not sure where Louisiana will get the 1b SU has been shorted over the years (particularly with a Republican governor and state legislature) but SU should be made whole so their students can gain equal education.

How’s that?

Not necessarily.

I believe schools should be properly funded, but our interpretations of "properly funded" probably aren't the same. You're a mainstream Democrat and I'm a moderate anarcho capitalist libertarian Republican.

Certainly if SU is going to continue to offer undergraduate degrees, then funding should go up, to a higher level per student than, say, LSU, at least in the short and medium term.

My goal if I were Dictator of Higher Education in Louisiana would be to improve the quality of education and the employment prospects and future income of students, with lower overall costs. Higher education costs and tuition (not at SU though) are out of control. I received an excellent education, at a much lower inflation-adjusted cost than students in similar degree programs receive now.

Some of my best classes were in lecture halls filled with 150 or more students, supplemented by labs and the like supervised by slave labor (i.e. graduate students). There are only so many superior teachers around, which the university had the good sense to encourage to teach, as opposed to spending all their time on research. What I'm getting at is that small class sizes and small universities are overrated. I'm no expert, but suspect we don't need 2800 four year colleges in this country.

Anyway, my plan might entail closing or repurposing some poor performing institutions. If I decided in my omniscient wisdom, in my role as Education Dictator, to phase out the undergraduate program at SU, I would accommodate students who would have otherwise gone to SU at other, better institutions. I'm fine with affirmative action btw.

I suspect some students at SU, like me, had poor educational backgrounds coming out of high school. Well, 18 year old kids can handle a lot when challenged, especially those that are motivated. I was lost in a couple of classes my first semester, but caught up by the end of the first year, and by the end of the second everything was easy peasy.

[Salty Again]

... I'm a big believer in School Choice.

### Salty

[1blackman1]

Has nothing at all to do with this subject Salty

[Salty Again]

Originally Posted by 1blackman1

Has nothing at all to do with this subject Salty

... Actually, it does.

... We're discussing segregation at University and
admissions by race. ... I can see some of your points,
as does Tiny - but when a concept such-as "school choice"
is brought-forth - even at the college level - it surely
throws a bit of a monkeyed wrench into your arguement.

#### Salty

[Yssup Rider]

“School choice” as used in todays political arena does not refer to colleges and universities, but public k-12 schools. Hence, 1b1 is correct.