Promoter Plan?

[travelling_man]

Originally Posted by SP Hunter

In simple terms CF is a WK gone overboard, he thought he was helping young providers establish themselves in the community. Never realizing he was really doing more harm to them than good, let alone getting free or highly discounted pussy for himself.

I agree that what CF did actually did more harm to the girls in the long run. In addition he harmed girls that did not accept his agreement (ever heard the term guilty by association?). While those girls did nothing in the least bit wrong, their credibility is going to be suspect because of the association with CF and WS. How are we supposed to know exactly which of the glowing reviews and blatant promotions were done for girls that accepted their agreement and how many refused? There is no way to know so all of the girls have been in some way harmed.

But I don't agree with SP's belief that he was just a WK gone overboard. CF and WS were both shrewd, calculating manipulators that took advantage of a girl's newness to the hobby, her fear of getting a bad review and her fear of retribution by what she thought was a "respected hobbyist". For the girls that didn't know any better, this is really little less that holding a gun or knife to her and raping her. The only difference is that instead of being in fear or harm or in fear for her life she had the fear of being a failure in business and not being able to provide for herself and her family. Facing with the possibility of having this "respected" hobbyist launch a smear campaign against her which would (in her mind) ruin her business, she complied with the demands. This is far from just being a WK and getting overboard with trying to help a girl. I am glad that a permanent ban has been placed on these members and as far as I'm concerned they should never involve themselves in the hobby again in any fashion.

Now the hard part is knowing which girls particated in this scam knowing fully what they were doing and which ones were doing it as I described above out of fear. I think the girls that participated in this blatant deceintfulness, manipulation and fraud should suffer the same fate as CF and WS. But we know that will never happen because we can never know what really went out and what the motivation was for the girls to accept the offer. I am waiting to see what the girls involved are going to offer to the membership to help restore their faith and credibility.

[Introuble]

OK...food for thought based upon what TM said.

What if the PROVIDERS asked him to help them and in return they would provide free sessions. Everyone is assuming (and correctly I assume) that CF approached them for the arrangement. What if the provider says if you will help me, I will give you discounts. Is there any difference? I believe THIS scenario happens more often than the one with CF.

Originally Posted by Chevalier

One wonders, for those few who could and would write an unbiased review, even though they got a free session for the review, why they're not willing to disclose that arrangement in the review. Because I don't think I've ever seen such a disclosure.

You'd think if they were confident in their integrity in writing the review, they'd be willing to let people know that it was compensated.

I may have gotten a free session once or twice in my life. I can't remember why but for the sake of argument, I am sure in the hundreds of sessions I have had somewhere in all of that was a freebie.

Most of what we get in this hobby are discounts similar to PC or other discounts centered around reviews and frequent visits. Since that is well known and advertised there is little value of disclosing that info. I am one of the few (good or bad) that will put the price advertised but never (rarely) the price paid. The reason for that is simple. If I get a $25 or $50 discount for being "me" it is not in the best interest of the provider to disclose that. I may get what the next guy doesn't and by disclosing MY discount, then everyone else assumes they get it to. I never ask for a discount (except for a PC where they expect you to take it) and many times knowing that the discount is there, I wait until she offers it. I guess I am old fashioned and believe it is rude to negotiate unless invited.

My financial arrangements with a provider or any other business is no ones business but mine and theirs. If I get my car tuned up and the guy likes me because I send him business, I certainly am not going to tell all his customers about the discount he gave me. That is bad for both of us. It is HIS jib to give discounts not mine to advertise it. Yes a little self interest there, but also respect for the provider/business too.

So to me it is quite obvious why many choose to not disclose the financial arrangements of the sessions. In return, my reviews regardless of arrangements will stand the test of time, are accurate, and I challenge anyone to prove otherwise or challenge the integrity and accuracy of my reviews.

CPI probably remembers the knock down fight I had with DJ, CK, Poonicus and Dagwood over integrity and reviews. Dagwood publicly stated to me that you could not write an honest and accurate review if you did not pay full price. That is simply not true and I fought them over it. Ended up getting 30 days in the cooler simply because they did not like being challenged in public. You simply cannot judge all people based upon what some do.

[yardape]

I'm reluctant to be critical of anybody personally, including the individual who tipped me to this board. He did so in good faith so far as I can tell. I'm not privy to any of the rest. At the end of the day we can say the "system" seems to have worked, even though the evident results leave some considerable disappointment.

[YSD]

My, my, my, my my!!!! Took a short self imposed sabbatical from the boards and look what I return to.

Motives not withstanding, bumping (which has rarely been mentioned in this discussion) is wrong----one of the elementary rules in posting. So it is known that bumping regularly was a part of their program. It is wrong at the most fundamental level.

I want to believe the reviews were genuine and enthusiastic. So sorry that the gentlemen involved did not think their folly through well enough.

However, this doesn't surprise me in the least. I used to scratch my head, but now feel vindicated.

[Chevalier]

Originally Posted by Introuble

If I get a $25 or $50 discount for being "me" it is not in the best interest of the provider to disclose that.

Hmmmm. What does "for being me" mean? That you're

A real stud
Sparkling and witty conversationalist
Likely to write a review
Remind her of her favorite movie star (or father?)
Regular customer
Big shot on the boards

In return, my reviews regardless of arrangements will stand the test of time, are accurate, and I challenge anyone to prove otherwise or challenge the integrity and accuracy of my reviews.

Not incumbent on me to believe your reviews are accurate unless I can prove otherwise. It's my choice whether to consider your reviews as credible, and it is entirely within my rights to discount reviews by someone who writes reviews of sessions for which he receives, but does not disclose, discounts.

P.S. Always possible to either disclose there was a discount and why, without mentioning the amount. Or accept a discount but not write a review -- assuming that's not why she's giving you the discount. Or, proceed as you do. *shrug* your choice.

[Introuble]

LOL.....My reference to "being me" was simply to suggest that:

1) They like you
2) Frequent patron
3) Click well
4) Personal Friend
5) Something in general that sets you apart from everyone else.

I had a provider give me a $50 discount just because when I pulled out my concealed handgun to lay on top of the TV during the session, she had the identical same gun in her purse and she thought that was cool. I had another provider that ran out to her car to get her gun so we could compare. Silly little things sometimes happen that make the session "special". For you it could be a bottle of wine, or a flower, or lunch.

We are nitpicking this to death.

I am only suggesting that sometimes there are issues that set you apart from others and sometimes that leads to a "closer" relationship ie compensation adjustment.

It has nothing to do with me being a stud or any of the things you suggested. Most of us have all had these types of "relationships" at some time where it just clicked for whatever reason. I could have just as easily used "you"

I guess I am amazed at some who believe not disclosing a $25 discount is such a big damn deal when all we are REALLY talking about is review honesty and the integrity of the writer. What you are suggesting is that if you and I write a review of the same provider and the details in the review are virtually identical but I get a $25 discount for whatever reason, then my review is less objective, less accurate, and less believable than yours because I did not divuldge the discount. That is very idealistic and lacks the reality of the hobby in general. The reality of it is that it makes no difference as long as the review is accurate. Whether you believe the review or not has nothing to do with the failure to divulge the discount, but rather your opinion of the writer and their ability to describe the BCD details accurately without bias. The review is just as accurate either way.

Is my review any more wrong than when hobbyists gets BBBJ but puts down CBJ because the provider does not want everyone expecting more than that? Or she kisses you DFK but asks you to put down LFK. Oh and how about the big one.....CFS vs BBFS?

We are nitpicking from an idealistic perspective.

[IronMan]

I agree with you INTROUBLE
I once got $-50 back because my DATY was the best she had ever gotten! But I believe I disclosed it in the review! grin
Back then when the review was out there it was not considered disclosure it was tagged as bragging LOL!
MAZ

[Chevalier]

Well, it's easy enough to get around. On the occasions when I've been given a private discount (perhaps even standard grandfathering), if I don't want to disclose that, I just don't write a review. It's not as though it's critical that I do so. As you point out, that's likely on a repeat visit, which would mean I've probably already reviewed her. I do multiple reviews fairly rarely, and most of the ladies I see don't offer me private discounts anyway -- either prefer to keep the boundaries, or don't think a discount is necessary to keep my business, or don't care if they keep my business.

Yeah, I have an idealistic viewpoint. As I already pointed out, many guys see nothing wrong with what CF and WS did, as long as it was fully consensual by the ladies. *shrug* Some guys are doing the same thing on a smaller scale and without the paper trail, or wish that they had thought of it.