Arizona Supreme Court abortion ban

[Jackie S]

Originally Posted by Tiny

A female relative of mine was a Trump fan. She's now a Democrat and will vote for Biden, and likely won't vote for any Republicans this fall. Abortion and LGBT issues are the reason. She's past child bearing age and heterosexual. There are many like her.

At least we know which way her moral compass points.

Which is good. Even though I don’t think religion should play a role in this, Jesus said, (to paraphrase), “you need to be hot or cold, if you are luke warm, I will spew you out of my mouth.”

That kinda speaks of those who say “I am personally against killing fetuses in the womb, but won’t say anything to anyone who does it”.

https://goodnewsuk.com/bible-helps/r...f%20my%20mouth.

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by Levianon17

At twelve weeks the fetus is about 2 inches long and roughly 45 to 49 ounces in weight. There is also a Heart beat, so yeah there would be a pain response when something pokes them. You can visualize an Abortion how ever you like but the reality is an Abortion Doctor when performing an Abortion is pulling parts of the fetus and placing them on a stainless steel tray. It's also quite plain to see even at twelve weeks that you have an arm or a leg ect. on the tray.

Fair enough. You make a compelling case, although you haven't changed my mind. And although I think the majority of abortions up to 12 weeks would be performed with drugs, and most with drugs or suction. Finally from what I'm reading, a 12 week old fetus weighs around 0.5 ounces, not 45 to 49 ounces. You're correct about the heartbeat.

[Salty Again]

... I agree with both Tiny and Vita on this... Can we keep the
discussion aimed at the Arizona decision? ... Ideas and Opinions
are nice, but let's solve one issue at a time.

... I do feel that Arizona is headed for a compromise.
And I also believe other states will surely follow suit. ...

#### Salty

[Levianon17]

Originally Posted by Tiny

Fair enough. You make a compelling case, although you haven't changed my mind. And although I think the majority of abortions up to 12 weeks would be performed with drugs, and most with drugs or suction. Finally from what I'm reading, a 12 week old fetus weighs around 0.5 ounces, not 45 to 49 ounces. You're correct about the heartbeat.

I am not trying to change your mind or anyone else's, it's not about that. It's about the truth. The truth is a pregnancy can only end through birth. Abortion destroys the fetus or disrupts the natural course of human development. A sane society shouldn't advocate that.

[Jackie S]

Originally Posted by Levianon17

I am not trying to change your mind or anyone else's, it's not about that. It's about the truth. The truth is a pregnancy can only end through birth. Abortion destroys the fetus or disrupts the natural course of human development. A sane society shouldn't advocate that.

But a selfish and self centered society can.

[Levianon17]

Originally Posted by yeahsurewhatev

OMG, please keep going. Just when I can’t imagine a more inane comment, you come up with one. I trust you’re going to reveal your sources as your final flourish.

Well here's one. The Satanist are suing because Abortion is a Religious right in their eyes, lol.


https://www.axios.com/local/boston/2...n-ban-lawsuits

[biomed1]

Of Guideline # 6 . . .

#6 - Respect the topics presented by those who start a thread. Attempts to derail a thread or change it's direction is referred to as thread hijack and will be discouraged. Attempts to guide a thread in the right direction are appreciated, while responses to posts which hijack a thread are not.

It has been noted a number of times in this thread that the original topic is the Arizona Court Case/Decision.

This is not the thread to debate the good or evil of abortion - If you wish to have that discussion (Again), Please start another Thread.

[txdot-guy]

Arizona Republicans on Wednesday blocked a vote to repeal an 1864 abortion ban that the state Supreme Court revived last week, bucking former President Donald Trump’s pleas to nix the law and siding with the state’s influential anti-abortion lobby.

https://www.politico.com/news/2024/0...n-ban-00152865

https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/17/polit...%20the%20state.

This fracture in the arizona republican party shows what a divisive issue abortion actually is. If Trump can’t get the lawmakers in arizona to overturn the 1864 law and come back to a more rational 15 week ban then I don’t see how independents are going to vote republican this time around.

[Yssup Rider]

The GOP can’t govern, and as we’ll see in six months, they can’t win without pro choice women. May they gag on their hypocrisy. This bit of pandering to the extremists will ensure AZ turns solidly blue.

[Tiny]

Arizona has been a complete fiasco for Republicans. Trump got the process started by primarying Jeff Flake and getting into a war of words with John McCain, even implying McCain was a coward for being taken prisoner by North Vietnam instead of fighting to the death. Then there was Trump’s attempt to steal Arizona’s electoral votes.

You may be right Yssup, abortion may be the nail in the coffin, and Arizona may become blue. I can’t believe Republicans are running Kari Lake for Senator. Given her stance on abortion, the fact she already lost a statewide election, for governor, to a Democrat, and her inability to accept that she clearly lost, I don’t see how she wins this time.

I hope Salty’s right, that Arizona Republicans ultimately come to a compromise position on abortion.

[eyecu2]

AZ is full of normal regular ppl. The whole sway of these laws to a complete ban is absurd. 50% of the population will create a shit storm and throw out the goofs. Those who want to limit womens rights to control their own bodies. Nov is going to prove a real retribution against these extreme positions on the pro life agenda.

MAGA or ultra conservatives and the big churchy politicians have boldy gone in and found the reception of the general population less than welcoming. Gov Katie Hobbs will get her state straightened out soon.

[txdot-guy]

PHOENIX (AP) — A proposed repeal of Arizona’s near-total ban on abortions won approval from the state House Wednesday after two weeks of mounting pressure on Republicans over an issue that has bedeviled former President Donald Trump’s campaign to return to the White House.

Three Republicans joined in with all 29 Democrats Wednesday to repeal a law that predated Arizona’s statehood and provides no exceptions for rape or incest. If the Senate approves as expected, Arizona would allow abortions up to 15 weeks.

Their political ambitions imperiled by widespread opposition to a near-total abortion ban, Trump and U.S. Senate candidate Kari Lake had urged Arizona lawmakers to ease the restrictions. But until Wednesday, most state House Republicans repeatedly used procedural votes to block repeal, each time drawing condemnation from Democratic President Joe Biden, who has made his support for abortion rights central to his reelection campaign.

https://apnews.com/article/arizona-a...d2c45e9eff1c79

[VitaMan]

As always, anyone involved with Trump is flexible in their position, as long as it benefits them.....no convictions.

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by Salty Again

... I do feel that Arizona is headed for a compromise.
And I also believe other states will surely follow suit. ...

#### Salty

You were right about Arizona Salty! I hope Texas is next. But with people like Tim Dunn and Ferris Wilks calling the shots behind the scenes, that's doubtful.

[txdot-guy]

Apparently the three republicans in the arizona house who voted for the repeal are being taken to the woodshed over their votes.
https://www.azcentral.com/story/opin...e/73444645007/

Opinion: The Arizona House has passed a bill to repeal the 1864 abortion ban. Republicans are furious at their three defectors, but they should be thanking them.

The Arizona House on Wednesday voted to repeal the state’s 1864 abortion ban, as three Republicans sided with Democrats to roll over their colleagues and kill the 160-year-old law.

Gress, the GOP ringleader for repeal, was immediately sent to the doghouse by House Speaker Ben Toma, who relieved him of his seat on the House Appropriations Committee.

Kolodin quickly called for his defeat later this year, which is no small thing when you consider that Republicans have just a one-vote margin in each chamber.

Republicans should have been thanking the defectors, who likely offered pro-life supporters their best (only?) chance of defeating an initiative to enshrine abortion rights into the state constitution this fall.

Instead, GOP heads were fairly popping off and bouncing across the floor as the majority party was trampled by three of their own.

“We’re talking about killing infants, let’s think about that,” Rep. Alexander Kolodin, R-Scottsdale, growled at the defector Republicans as the repeal vote was taken. “You’re willing to kill infants in order to win an election.”

“Believe me, we will remember this,” a furious Speaker Pro-Tem Travis Grantham, R-Gilbert, said, after Republicans fended off a second motion to block later potential shenanigans meant to hold up the bill.