Why we need 'death panels'

[acp5762]

Originally Posted by nevergaveitathought

every dumb dem in the last month has caimed we dont have a debt problem
including obama...

while i know they are just lying scum bags with merely an ideology and not a love of country...it would be nice if just once obama could tell the truth to his low information voters

I've heard that too. That we don't have a debt problem. Do ya think Obama will lend me, oh about 2 or 3 Million so I can buy some real cool toys, lol.

[JD Barleycorn]

Why comment anymore on this. We clearly have some two legged animals among us ...but that isn't fair to animals. At least they don't pass laws to hinder everyone else and they do their own killing.

[WTF]

Originally Posted by LexusLover

Does you OP confirm our health care "system" has "death panels"?

It confirms that it does not. If you read the article it promotes that we should have "End of life discussions"


First, we need to remember where the term "death panel" came from. The idea had fairly broad support until funding for it was included in Obamacare. Opponents framed it as government bureaucrats pulling the plug on grandma (when it was really about doctors being realistic with patients), and amid a backlash, it was pulled.
That was stupid. These questions demand far more serious discussion.

The fact is, 25% of all Medicare spending goes to the 5% of recipients who die each year --with 80% of that in the last two months of life. This is aggressive spending on things like stays in intensive care and critical care units, which research has shown do not meet the needs and preferences of terminal patients despite its increasing use.
Especially when combined with the growing evidence supporting the benefits of less-expensive, palliative hospice care that allows people to enjoy their last days on this earth in peace at home, not poked, prodded and intubated, floating in and out of consciousness under the fluorescent lights of a $30,000-a-night hospital room.

[Guest032516]

Originally Posted by CJ7

I clearly stated "plan". And your point is? It still is a projection, not a fact.

as for projections, the numbers the rightwing constantly whine about, both federal deficits, and Health Care are no more than projections either. True, but they don't follow up their projections with "FACT!"

Apparently I'm not traveling alone... So you're still traveling alone.

...Mr Pretentious Ass.

Better be careful about calling me "pretentious". You may get sued by IBHankerwrong for trademark infringement.

[CJ7]

Originally Posted by ExNYer

Better be careful about calling me "pretentious". You may get sued by IBHankerwrong for trademark infringement.

that said, you better take the way I used fact into consideration.

It is a fact based on PROJECTIONS of the numbers provided by Ryan himself, the Ryan budget raises the deficit, and he stands by those projections wholeheartedly.

FACT.

if you care to travel in time and prove either Ryan or the number crunchers at the CBO wrong then I'll gladly listen to you.

[IIFFOFRDB]

Originally Posted by ExNYer

Better be careful about calling me "pretentious". You may get sued by IBHankerwrong for trademark infringement.

What about Bush vs Gore? Bush vs Kerry? Who was the lesser evil?

[Guest032516]

Originally Posted by CJ7

that said, you better take the way I used fact into consideration.

It is a fact based on PROJECTIONS of the numbers provided by Ryan himself, the Ryan budget raises the deficit, and he stands by those projections wholeheartedly.

FACT.

if you care to travel in time and prove either Ryan or the number crunchers at the CBO wrong then I'll gladly listen to you.

Ahhhhh, so it is a "fact" based on "projections". Now, I don't see. That totally makes nonsense.

[Guest032516]

Originally Posted by IIFFOFRDB

What about Bush vs Gore? Bush vs Kerry? Who was the lesser evil?

What?

[IIFFOFRDB]

Originally Posted by ExNYer

What?

Well since you claim to be a Republican who voted for Obama. Did you vote for Bush?

[Guest032516]

Originally Posted by IIFFOFRDB

Well since you claim to be a Republican who voted for Obama. Did you vote for Bush?

I have no idea what that has to do with this thread. Are you and Little Stevie related?

But, to answer your question, yes. I voted for him twice. The second time I held my nose.

I regret both now. Bush never vetoed a single spending bill. He was a RINO.

"Compassionate conservatism" was nothing but Democratic style spending coupled with borrowing instead of taxing.

[CuteOldGuy]

Uh, all of you are missing the point. As usual. The point is not who should live or who should die, it's whether the government should be making the decision. I guess, if you were to voluntarily turn over you lives, livelihood, well being and health care to the government, then you are giving them the say in whether you live or die. Fine, if you want to do it that way.

But what if I want to opt out of Obamacare, and take care of myself? I don't have that choice. The government has taken from me, without my consent, the right to determine whether I live or die.

If you don't want to pay for my long term care, or extraordinary measures to keep me alive - fine. Don't. I'm not asking you to. If I can't cover it myself, that's my problem, not yours.

All I want is the freedom to choose. I don't want the government involved.

[acp5762]

We don't need death panels thats totally ridiculous and insane thinking. I think people should be able to live as long as they desire and as far as Medical Science will allow them to. No one has the right to stamp an expiration date to the soles of our feet.

[Guest032516]

Originally Posted by acp5762

We don't need death panels thats totally ridiculous and insane thinking. I think people should be able to live as long as they desire and as far as Medical Science will allow them to. No one has the right to stamp an expiration date to the soles of our feet.

No one has an unlimited entitlement to other people's money.

Progressive politics notwithstanding.

[WTF]

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

Uh, all of you are missing the point. As usual. The point is not who should live or who should die, it's whether the government should be making the decision. I guess, if you were to voluntarily turn over you lives, livelihood, well being and health care to the government, then you are giving them the say in whether you live or die. Fine, if you want to do it that way.

But what if I want to opt out of Obamacare, and take care of myself? I don't have that choice. The government has taken from me, without my consent, the right to determine whether I live or die.

If you don't want to pay for my long term care, or extraordinary measures to keep me alive - fine. Don't. I'm not asking you to. If I can't cover it myself, that's my problem, not yours.

All I want is the freedom to choose. I don't want the government involved.

What kind of lie is this?

Anybody can pay their own bills and extend their life for two weeks at a astronomical cost that would wipe out most folks retirement. Nobody has a problem with that , you are just flat out lying about not having that choice.

Who else thinks this nonsense?

[WTF]

Originally Posted by acp5762

We don't need death panels thats totally ridiculous and insane thinking. I think people should be able to live as long as they desire and as far as Medical Science will allow them to. No one has the right to stamp an expiration date to the soles of our feet.

Have you read the article? No you haven't.

Are you willing to pay higher taxes? No you aren't The question becomes , "How do we pay for this end of life care"? Like I told COFool, if he wants to pay for this, then go for it but it is breaking the country. WTF do you think a voucher system will do? The exact same thing. No private insurance co will spend more than they take in.

Do you silly SOB's not understand simple math?

The fact is, 25% of all Medicare spending goes to the 5% of recipients who die each year --with 80% of that in the last two months of life. This is aggressive spending on things like stays in intensive care and critical care units, which research has shown do not meet the needs and preferences of terminal patients despite its increasing use.
Especially when combined with the growing evidence supporting the benefits of less-expensive, palliative hospice care that allows people to enjoy their last days on this earth in peace at home, not poked, prodded and intubated, floating in and out of consciousness under the fluorescent lights of a $30,000-a-night hospital room.