Stephanè Hessel on Occupy Wallstreet "Find the time for outrage"

[WTF]

Originally Posted by I B Hankering

Yes, government does play a role in capitalism; it always has. Adam Smith wrote that the role of government was to insure the playing field was level for all 'domestic' entrepreneurs. In the realm of international ventures, the government was to insure 'domestic' entrepreneurs were protected against 'unfair business' ventures from other nations.

Who decides 'fair'? That is the rush to power. Who ever gains it, gets to decide it. So you have the powerful deciding what is fair for the less powerful. It works the same way in any society...it is all a matter of degree's.

Please help Olivia out here I B. She is having a dinger of a time!

They are having trouble with this..."The trouble with socialism is socialism. The trouble with capitalism is capitalists."

[CuteOldGuy]

Social Security is socialism. There, happy now? So is Medicare and Obamacare. See, it was easy, WTF.

[WTF]

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

Social Security is socialism. There, happy now? So is Medicare and Obamacare. See, it was easy, WTF.

You need to help OliviaHoward and joe blow.............I am the teacher here COG, I already know this shit!

[Guest050715-1]

Originally Posted by WTF

Ok , you are back to 'F'.

What are we Olivia? What is our SS system?

Remember , you are being graded....

LOL, it’s a social, security net nested into a capitalist economic system. Don’t be foolish enough to try to suggest we are a socialist system. We are in no way a socialist society. Why do you think the Obamacare cost your boy all his clout? Why do you thing it is a cross-breed system that lays the cost of the program off onto the individual users? And why do you think it’s in the courts now? I'll tell you. A, if we were socialists, Obamacare would be evenly taxed across the economic strata not a mandated cost to be born by the users. And B, it wouldn’t be in the courts, because we are capitalists at heart and by design – not socialists. You may be a socialist, but you are in the minority.

I AGREED with you, but that just won’t do will it Kingmaker WTF? Have at your own self. You make no sense. You want to claim some kind of grand thinking, but you talk circles around your own self. EVERYONE sees it but you. Keep on, but, like I've told you before you and your comments are pure entertainment and in no way merit significant light. Let me put it to you in plain terms, you aren't nearly as bright, insightful or avant guarde as you think you are. So please, and again, have at it with yourself and who ever else is in you head with you, but, yet again, I just have to bow out of an ignorant conversation with a man that will insist on arguing with himself. Peace man - you need it.

[CuteOldGuy]

Game-Match-Set: Olivia

[I B Hankering]

Originally Posted by WTF

Who decides 'fair'? That is the rush to power. Who ever gains it, gets to decide it. So you have the powerful deciding what is fair for the less powerful. It works the same way in any society...it is all a matter of degree's.

Please help Olivia out here I B. She is having a dinger of a time!

They are having trouble with this..."The trouble with socialism is socialism. The trouble with capitalism is capitalists."

Smith was all for England dominating every other foreign nation militarily. England obliged, worked to protect the interests of its East India Company in all markets and helped break Napoleon's Continental System.

The Founding Fathers read his works, and that's why they invested in heavy frigates like the U.S.S. Constitution and insured the U.S. had a healthy merchant marine service.

[Guest050715-1]

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

Social Security is socialism. There, happy now? So is Medicare and Obamacare. See, it was easy, WTF.

Uncle Joe wants to be right, but he's not. Any civilized nation has safety nets. All nations have taxes. And most nations do not support people cradle to grave the way the socialist nations do.

Social Security and medicare are socialist programs, but they are a small percentage of our overall economy. Health care makes up one sixth, I think, of the economy, and medicare is only a percentage of that! Old peoples' supplementary income? What percentage of the GDP can that take up?

I have argued in my previous post that Obamacare isn't socialist, because it doesn't tax across the citizens. It actually charges the people to buy health insurance or fines them. If it was truly a socialist program, Obamacare would doll out health care for "free" to those in need.

[WTF]

Originally Posted by OliviaHoward

LOL, it’s a social, security net nested into a capitalist economic system. Don’t be foolish enough to try to suggest we are a socialist system. .

Originally Posted by OliviaHoward

LOL, it’s a social, security net nested into a capitalist economic system. Don’t be foolish enough to try to suggest we are a socialist system. We are in no way a socialist society. Why do you think the Obamacare cost your boy all his clout? Why do you thing it is a cross-breed system that lays the cost of the program off onto the individual users? And why do you think it’s in the courts now? I'll tell you. A, if we were socialists, Obamacare would be evenly taxed across the economic strata not a mandated cost to be born by the users. And B, it wouldn’t be in the courts, because we are capitalists at heart and by design – not socialists. You may be a socialist, but you are in the minority.

.

You do not even know the difference between Social Security and Obamacare. I asked you about SS not Obamacare, though Medicare is socialist in nature too.

I am not socialist, I'm just not ignorant of the ways of the world and how ignorant jb's statement was in in just labeling things stupidly.

Originally Posted by OliviaHoward

.

I AGREED with you, but that just won’t do will it .

You agreed with joe blow too. LOL

How many voices are you listening to in your head!

I said jb was full of shit and that there were degree's of Cap or Soc society.

You basically agreed with me but said jb was correct! Damn girl...

[CuteOldGuy]

Olivia, your analysis leads me to think that Obamacare is then, fascist, rather than socialist. Either way, it's a bad idea. By the way, I love you!

[WTF]

Originally Posted by OliviaHoward

Social Security and medicare are socialist programs, but they are a small percentage of our overall economy. Health care makes up one sixth, I think, of the economy, and medicare is only a percentage of that! Old peoples' supplementary income? What percentage of the GDP can that take up?

.

Are you out of your mind?

Those programs are having a huge drag on our way of life.

Those two and Defense spending make up the bulk of Federal government spending.

You are looking like a fool by making such statements....just because COG is agreeing with you does not make you right.

To not understand this is ok, I guess, as most people do not but you present yourself as actually knowing better.

On and nina wants to speak with you in the Hole.

Federal taxes are on average 20% of GDP....close to half of that is in the two programs that you dismiss. 10% of GDP! You may think that is nothing but it is sinking the ship along with Defense spending!

[Guest050715-1]

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

Olivia, your analysis leads me to think that Obamacare is then, fascist, rather than socialist. Either way, it's a bad idea. By the way, I love you!

It is!! It doesn't go far enough to protect the poor and middle classes! It takes the worst of both capitalism and socialism. It needs to be a socialist program. My bitch with it is that it feeds industry at the cost of working and middle classes. People should not die because the can't get access to reasonable healthcare.

I have a crush on you too!

[Guest050715-1]

Originally Posted by WTF

Are you out of your mind?

Those programs are having a huge drag on our way of life.

Those two and Defense spending make up the bulk of Federal government spending.

You are looking like a fool by making such statements....just because COG is agreeing with you does not make you right.

To not understand this is ok, I guess, as most people do not but you present yourself as actually knowing better.

On and nina wants to speak with you in the Hole.

Federal taxes are on average 20% of GDP....close to half of that is in the two programs that you dismiss. 10% of GDP! You may think that is nothing but it is sinking the ship along with Defense spending!

Medical spending is now 17.6% of the GDP. That IS 1/6th of the GDP. 17 x 6 = 102, and THAT'S what I said.

I'll go talk to that sexy thing in the Hole. Then I have to go get prettied up.

[joe bloe]

Thank you joe blow, how in the world could I have forgotten Mussolini’s Italy. Benito is the Godfather of fascism. Which by the way, I feel that America is now – That is that the government is controlled by industry.[/quote]

Fascism is when the government controls the private sector, not the other way around.

[Guest050715-1]

Originally Posted by joe bloe

Thank you joe blow, how in the world could I have forgotten Mussolini’s Italy. Benito is the Godfather of fascism. Which by the way, I feel that America is now – That is that the government is controlled by industry.

Fascism is when the government controls the private sector, not the other way around.[/quote]

Italian Fascism promotes a corporatist economic system whereby employer and employee syndicates are linked together in a corporative associations to collectively represent the nation's economic producers and work alongside the state to set national economic policy.[3] Italian Fascists claim that this economic system resolves and ends class conflict by creating class collaboration.[4]

This is the definition that I use to understand fascism. Mussolini was the first ruler that I know of, I could be wrong, to employ the ideology. I do not take it to mean that the State controls industry (that's communism in my eyes). Rather, I've understood fascism to be where industry controls the State.

[I B Hankering]

Gustav Georg Friedrich Maria Krupp von Bohlen und Halbach (Gustav took his wife Bertha’s name, Krupp, by Imperial decree after they were wedded.)

Unlike most of his fellow industrialists, Krupp opposed the Nazis. As late as the day before Paul von Hindenburg appointed Adolf Hitler as Chancellor, Krupp tried to warn him against making such a choice. However, after Hitler won power, Krupp became, as Fritz Thyssen later put it, "a super Nazi" almost overnight. Krupp was persuaded that the Nazis would smash the trade unions and make him even richer by building up the armed forces. He helped finance the election of 1933, which enabled Hitler to strengthen his tenuous grip on the government.

Krupp suffered failing health from 1939 onwards, and a stroke left him partially paralyzed in 1941. He became a figurehead until he formally handed over the running of the business to his son Alfried in 1943.

As the eldest son of Bertha Krupp, Alfried von Bohlen und Halbachwas destined by family tradition to become the sole heir of the Krupp concern. An amateur photographer and Olympic sailor, he was an early supporter of Nazism among German industrialists, joining the SS in 1931, and never disavowing his allegiance to Hitler.

When his father’s health declined starting in 1939, and after a stroke in 1941, Alfried took over full control of the firm, continuing its role as main arms supplier to Germany at war. In 1943, Hitler decreed the Lex Krupp, authorizing the transfer of all Bertha’s shares to Alfried, giving him the name “Krupp”; thus, dispossessing his siblings. [wiki]

Notice, it was an act of the state that disposed other Krupp heirs of their interests in the business and awarded the entire business to Gustav von Bohlen und Halbach’s son by Bertha, Alfried.