How many trumptards are going to die during the omicron surge?

[HedonistForever]

Originally Posted by NoirMan

Your understanding is wrong. I get your argument but it’s not exactly correct. We pointed this out in another thread.

Yes, personally you are protected with the vaccination. And from a purely personal standpoint that’s fine and dandy. However, you as a vaccinated person neither catchy nor spread the disease at the same rate that an unvaccinated person does. You’re about 80% less likely to catch it and if you do you’re about 90% less likely to get really sick. Meaning that the unvaccinated catch, spread and become I’ll (given all other factors being the same) at a far higher rate.

Why this matters is that variants spring from the spread of the disease. The vaccinated can create variants and spread the disease but they do so, by nature of their lower rate of catch and spread, at a vastly lower and slower pace. On the other hand, unvaccinated do so at a vastly high pace.

It also matters in that. Though you personally may be protected, that doesn’t mean you can’t contribute to the harm of possibly death of other people that either can’t become vaccinated, spreading it to children, giving a variant to another person who is less protected.

I haven’t read enough on the effects of Omicron to know how bad it can be. We likely don’t know because the people that are being seen with it have been those that are vaccinated and hence are afforded a higher level of protection. When the unprotected population starts getting it en masse, we will have a better idea of whether it is more or less dangerous. Also, if it’s spreading amongst the vaccinated at a higher rate than delta. I imagine we will find it’ll burn through the unvaccinated populace like wildfire. Maybe it’ll turn out to be our cure, a version that produces antibodies without having a 2% kill rate.

Personally I don’t care if people chose to remain vaccinated, but since that person is a possible vector, I believe they should live with the consequences of their choice. Hospitals should manage care them to the bottom and employers that don’t want an outbreak should let them go. But that’s my personal view.

You do remember what happened the last time you told me I was wrong, right? On a matter of self defense and the law.



This may be a helpful hint, maybe not. Don't combine "this is my personal opinion" and then tell somebody else they are wrong.

[Lucas McCain]

Originally Posted by Yssup Rider

There you go?

It’s public health. Not public policy.

Turn off the TV and help the world, BuddyBoy.

This is why we can’t beat this thing.

Man, you're wasting your time with these people. That's why I say just let them die on the streets. Yeah, it's harsh to say that, but they've been told what they need to do. If they refuse the obvious simple free care for their health, fuck em and the sooner they take a dirt nap the better IMO... that's just one less clown spreading this shit without any regard for others so good riddance to that motherfucker.

[dilbert firestorm]

Originally Posted by HedonistForever

What you left out, maybe because the numbers aren't out yet is, how many have died from Omicron? Isn't that the biggest concern? I keep hearing that there has been one death in the US, in a person that had Omicron. If that is true. look at all this hysteria of shutting down again if this variant isn't killing as much as Delta did.

This variant seems to be weaker although it spreads easier. The symtoms are rather mild from whats being reported in intl news.

It appears to be follow the standard viral timeline regarding its weakening virulence within 3 years.

In weakened form, its just another cold/flu variant thats going to be with us for years.

[tobias1988]

I agree

[Ducbutter]

Originally Posted by dilbert firestorm

This variant seems to be weaker although it spreads easier. The symtoms are rather mild from whats being reported in intl news.

It appears to be follow the standard viral timeline regarding its weakening virulence within 3 years.

In weakened form, its just another cold/flu variant thats going to be with us for years.

Not to put too fine a point on it but, I said in here weeks ago that viruses tend to do exactly as this one has done. That is, to become move infectious and less virulent over time. From a biological and evolutionary standpoint, it's most advantageous for the organism to do so.

If having the Omicron variant provides protection against the Delta and original strains, that is a game changer in our fight, along with new therapeutics from Pfizer. That's a game changer for Pfizer stock.

[The_Waco_Kid]

Originally Posted by Ducbutter

Not to put too fine a point on it but, I said in here weeks ago that viruses tend to do exactly as this one has done. That is, to become move infectious and less virulent over time. From a biological and evolutionary standpoint, it's most advantageous for the organism to do so.

If having the Omicron variant provides protection against the Delta and original strains, that is a game changer in our fight, along with new therapeutics from Pfizer. That's a game changer for Pfizer stock.

so you are saying that history and science tell us these viruses either mutate themselves out of existence or into nothing more than the common cold. and anyone loading up on big pharma stocks should dump them before they drop like a rock. you listening rifledude?

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by Ducbutter

Not to put too fine a point on it but, I said in here weeks ago that viruses tend to do exactly as this one has done. That is, to become move infectious and less virulent over time. From a biological and evolutionary standpoint, it's most advantageous for the organism to do so.

If having the Omicron variant provides protection against the Delta and original strains, that is a game changer in our fight, along with new therapeutics from Pfizer. That's a game changer for Pfizer stock.

Excellent post. The one question I'd have is whether the immunity we've developed, from vaccines and previous infections, is the main reason why Omicron is putting fewer people who are infected in the hospital. I don't know the answer.

[Ducbutter]

Originally Posted by Tiny

Excellent post. The one question I'd have is whether the immunity we've developed, from vaccines and previous infections, is the main reason why Omicron is putting fewer people who are infected in the hospital. I don't know the answer.

Actually just saw some info that stated Omicron doesn't seem to provide much immunity from Delta. More against other variants however.
Still not much data about Omicron and the unvaxxed. That will tell the tale regarding your question, it would seem but I could be wrong. If the unvaxxed don't experience the same kind of reduction in pathology, that would imply a correlation to the vaccines effects.
It seems as if a combination of natural and vaxxed immunity is optimum. Natural immunity produces a front line defense (IGa) vaccination does not. We cannot vaccinate our way out of this.

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by Ducbutter

Actually just saw some info that stated Omicron doesn't seem to provide much immunity from Delta. More against other variants however.
Still not much data about Omicron and the unvaxxed. That will tell the tale regarding your question, it would seem but I could be wrong. If the unvaxxed don't experience the same kind of reduction in pathology, that would imply a correlation to the vaccines effects.
It seems as if a combination of natural and vaxxed immunity is optimum. Natural immunity produces a front line defense (IGa) vaccination does not. We cannot vaccinate our way out of this.

Good points.

Another question. Do you think the combination of an mRNA vaccine and booster given along with something like an inactivated whole virus vaccine could provide as much protection as natural immunity + vaccine immunity? The two Chinese vaccines, made by Sinopharm and Sinovac, are whole virus vaccines. See here for more info,

https://covid19.trackvaccines.org/types-of-vaccines/

[69in2it69]

Originally Posted by Ducbutter

Not to put too fine a point on it but, I said in here weeks ago that viruses tend to do exactly as this one has done. That is, to become move infectious and less virulent over time. From a biological and evolutionary standpoint, it's most advantageous for the organism to do so.

If having the Omicron variant provides protection against the Delta and original strains, that is a game changer in our fight, along with new therapeutics from Pfizer. That's a game changer for Pfizer stock.

Not my area of expertise by any means so consider this an honest, stupid question. If viruses tend to less virulent, then why does the regular flu still knock people on their ass. By this point, shouldn't it be so infectious it can't be avoided, and so watered down most wouldn't even know they have it? Why didn't measles weaken to the point a vaccine wasn't needed?

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by 69in2it69

Not my area of expertise by any means so consider this an honest, stupid question. If viruses tend to less virulent, then why does the regular flu still knock people on their ass. By this point, shouldn't it be so infectious it can't be avoided, and so watered down most wouldn't even know they have it? Why didn't measles weaken to the point a vaccine wasn't needed?

Not my area of expertise either. If the COVID really knocks you on your ass, so that you stay home or go to the hospital, you’re not going to be out in public spreading it to every Tom, Dick and Harry. So I see why the virus might evolve to become less virulent. Another thought that I mentioned above, maybe it’s not that much less virulent. Maybe now that most people have gotten infected and/or gotten vaccinated, we have more immunity so that the new variant seems less virulent.

But why haven’t viruses like smallpox and AIDS become less virulent? I’ve got no idea. Maybe they have

Edit: You brought up a really good point, especially with regard to the flu. This article mentions the 1918 flu epidemic, where an influenza virus evolved to become more virulent, and questions whether COVID will become less virulent

https://healthfeedback.org/claimrevi...m-mike-mutzel/

[LexusLover]

Originally Posted by Tiny

Anyway .... protecting people like Bob is another good reason to get vaccinated, get a booster, and wear a KN95 or N95 mask and social distance when appropriate.

I'm just curious ....

.... did anyone tell you that by:

... getting "the vaccine" (you picked your poison) ...

... wearing a "mask" ...

... or "social distancing" ....

... you are "protecting people"?

The flu infects millions of us -- 5 to 20 percent of the U.S. population, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC). In Canada, 10 to 25 percent of the population gets the flu each year, according to Health Canada. It can leave us achy, sniffling, sneezing, coughing and generally feeling miserable for a few days or weeks.

Most think of the flu as a mild annoyance that comes around each winter, but it can be a very dangerous disease. In the United States alone, the CDC estimates that more than 200,000 people are hospitalized each year with the flu or with flu-related complications. More than 36,000 people die.

The World Health Organization has determined that the flu kills between 250,000 to 500,000 people each year.

https://www.sharecare.com/health/col...n-is-influenza

So, for the past 20 years what have you been doing to "protect people" from getting the flu?

1. flu shot?
2. wear a mask?
3. social distance?

4. quit eating at the bar?

[Tiny]

I do “1” every year, and “3” and “4” (which is a subset of “3”) when symptomatic. That’s for the common cold. I never get the flu, probably in part because I get vaccinated every year.

While I’ve had a stash of N95 masks since 2005, people believe you’re odd if you wear a mask where I live.

[bambino]

Originally Posted by Tiny

I do “1” every year, and “3” and “4” (which is a subset of “3”) when symptomatic. That’s for the common cold. I never get the flu, probably in part because I get vaccinated every year.

While I’ve had a stash of N95 masks since 2005, people believe you’re odd if you wear a mask where I live.

Is this you at the grocery store?


https://t.me/rrndaily/143900

[Ducbutter]

Originally Posted by 69in2it69

Not my area of expertise by any means so consider this an honest, stupid question. If viruses tend to less virulent, then why does the regular flu still knock people on their ass. By this point, shouldn't it be so infectious it can't be avoided, and so watered down most wouldn't even know they have it? Why didn't measles weaken to the point a vaccine wasn't needed?

Despite Tiny's protestations this isn't my area of expertise either. Truth be told I'm not sure I have one. Like most folks I just repeat the ideas of others.
That said, the reason behind a statement like that is simply that it's in the organism's best evolutionary interest not to kill off it's host. Natural selection rewards adaptability and viruses are extremely adaptable. Consequently, the Covid virus will mutate further and it could mutate into something very deadly so we should be aware of that. Not to be punny, but that's an evolutionary dead end.
To reiterate, what I said about viruses in general is something I've heard from others, most recently Dr. Robert Malone so I'll just pin it on him. I know Tiny posted an article where one of his colleagues was trashing him, but that's something I'd take with a grain of salt. Researchers have personalities and they're not all warm and fuzzy. I can't remember if it was Crick or Watson (discoverers of the double helix of DNA) that was quite bristly. We don't disregard the work because one of them was an asshole.