The killing of Mexicans

[mikkifine]

It is sad if people were cheering to his statement. If Cain wants to keep Mexicans from entering this country illegally then just hire more border patrol.

Most Mexicans that come into the United States just want to make a living and send money home to their families. There is no need to threaten them violence and murder.

Originally Posted by Yssup Rider

Here's more evidence that the GOP frontrunner, Herman Cain, is a loony tune.

Stumping in Iowa, he not only advocated for a complete fence along the US-Mexico border, but also called for that fence to be electrified with enough voltage to kill anyone trying to get into the US illegally.

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2...-border-fence/

Folks, think about that the next time you go on a bender in boystown! I suppose he'll be issuing insulation to people who might be legal and find themselves near the border.

Cain? Rhymes with insane.

Nein-Nein-Nein!

[Yssup Rider]

Originally Posted by DTorrchia

My "agenda" is to call it the way it is. People want to bitch and moan about militarizing the border or putting up a fence without having any viable alternatives to put forth.
KINDA LIKE BITCHING AND MOANING ABOUT THE AFFORDABLE CARE ACT WITHOUT PROPOSING ANY VIABLE ALTERNATIVES, EH?

Border control doesn't have to be a fence electrified with deadly current. Sorry if you can't tell the difference. Do you believe those are the only two alternatives? Or that a fence separating families and, in the case of UT Brownsville, college campuses, is going to stop people from crossing the border?

Again, you rely on insults and confrontational rhetoric to dodge MY questions. You know, you're just being hardheaded and doing everything possible to squabble, complain and whine. I don't want to spend my day deflecting your insults. I could do without the insults completely.

This is a subject you obviously feel passionate about and about which nobody else is entitled to an opinion.

So perhaps we should just agree that you want to electrocute Mexicans and I want the borders to be open to immigrants. Legal or illegal is a political issue, not a physical one.

BTW -- when are you going to answer my questions, man? This time, please make it about the topic, not the poster.

[DTorrchia]

Originally Posted by Yssup Rider

KINDA LIKE BITCHING AND MOANING ABOUT THE AFFORDABLE CARE ACT WITHOUT PROPOSING ANY VIABLE ALTERNATIVES, EH?
Wow, and you complain about people not staying on topic?! LOL
Everyone is entitled to an opinion. I asked you a few simple questions in my first response to your thread about what you believe our border security should entail since you obviously disagree with the fence Cain proposed. You immediately started complaining about insults when none were directed at you in the first response.
So....to your questions



Border control doesn't have to be a fence electrified with deadly current. Sorry if you can't tell the difference. Do you believe those are the only two alternatives?
I believe there's dozens of alternatives. Military troops, increasing the number of drones currently used, increasing the size of the Border Patrol, training and deputizing private volunteers, many of whom would volunteer their time for free, physical barriers such as the fence that's already being built, etc etc.

Or that a fence separating families and, in the case of UT Brownsville, college campuses, is going to stop people from crossing the border?

What I know is this; While you cry about how inhumane an electric fence would be, some facts show otherwise.
Between 1961 and 2000, approximately 1,100 people were killed trying to cross from East Germany into West Germany. That's 1,100 people during a period of 39 years involving a border that was one of the most heavily guarded with electric fences, mines, guard dogs and East German border guards with orders to shoot to kill.
By contrast here in the United States according to the United States Border Patrol, 1,954 people died crossing the U.S–Mexico border between the years 1998-2004.[3] In the fiscal year ending September 29, 2004, 460 migrants died crossing the U.S.-Mexico border.[4] In 2005, more than 500 died across the entire U.S.-Mexico border. You have more illegals dying right now from exposure (including heat stroke, dehydration, and hyperthermia in a two year period than in the 39 year period of one of the most militarized borders in the world.
So the point could be made that a properly protected border could actually SAVE lives compared to the number of deaths illegals are currently experiencing coming across our "open" border.


Again, you rely on insults and confrontational rhetoric to dodge MY questions. You know, you're just being hardheaded and doing everything possible to squabble, complain and whine. I don't want to spend my day deflecting your insults. I could do without the insults completely.

This is a subject you obviously feel passionate about and about which nobody else is entitled to an opinion.

So perhaps we should just agree that you want to electrocute Mexicans and I want the borders to be open to immigrants. Legal or illegal is a political issue, not a physical one.

Again, instead of posturing, simply look at the number of people killed during the 39 year period between East and West Germany, when East German guards had orders to shoot to kill, placed mines on their side of the border and used electric fences versus the number of illegals killed every single year right now crossing our "open" border. No matter how bad many East Germans wanted out, once they realized the price that they could possibly pay, few tried. So what you're saying Yssup is that it's perfectly acceptable for thousands of illegals to die trying to cross our open borders as long as they die because of exposure and not due to physical barriers?

BTW -- when are you going to answer my questions, man? This time, please make it about the topic, not the poster.

.

[theaustinescorts]

All this evades the central problem - why is Mexico imploding into chaos?

IMHO the US should withdraw it's military/CA activities from the middle east and redeploy to our southern border.

We should move to stablize the situation there, and use all means to do it.

The situation in Mexico is much worse than what's being reported, and it's spilling over all around us and penetrating into every part of the US.

ps...
The CIA Station Chief in Mexico City during the 60s was Winston Scott, who wrote a scathing book, "It Came To Nothing," after which he died in suspicous circumstances. Scott was a rightwing apologist for the Mexican plutocracy who over time changed his views.

[Yssup Rider]

You know of dozens of alternatives to an electified fence? As in 24, 36, 48 or more alternatives? OK... I'm gonna leave that one alone.

Drones to patrol the border for illegals? Drug smugglers, gun runners maybe, but illegal immigrants? Deputizing private volunteers? I'm guessing there'd be a lot of people lined up to get a piece of that action. Especially when deer and dove hunting seasons are over.

I am not opposed to a fence, as long as it's built properly (not through communities, schools and the like) and monitored professionally. Again, ensuring the border remains open, which will require a policy shift.

Now, let's discuss your final solution, er, example.

The stats you produced were interesting, indeed, and I certainly don't dispute them (Wikipedia, eh?), is your contention that a heavily armed, land mined barrier, attack dog patrolled barrier like the one that existed between East and West Germany will SAVE the lives of Mexican immigrants? So that alternative would be to use bullets, mines dogs AND electricity, right?

Are you suggesting by shooting, shocking, guard-doggifying, blowing up, etc., a few hundred people trying to slip past our 2,000 mile border (slightly longer than the one in Germany), we will encourage the rest not to die of exposure?

If that's what you're saying, then I guess you support Cain's "current" proposal. Also sounds like good health policy. Maybe if we start executing smokers as they enter their favorite Circle K, kids will stop starting to smoke...

That's your opinion. I won't comment on you. But I will comment on your opinion: I don't know about anybody else, but I find it barbaric and fundamentally contrary to the principles upon which this country was founded. As someone who does business in the Border Region, I would not feel very comfortable knowing that my country was more fortified against Mexico than it was against escapees from Huntsville.

I saw how people lived under Communism, crossing borders (and towns) within the Soviet bloc countries... and trying to cross into Free Europe as well. What you propose is, in my opinion, un-American.

BTW, DT -- Where are your people from?

[DTorrchia]

Originally Posted by Yssup Rider

Dozens? As in 24, 36, 48 or more alternatives? OK... I'm gonna leave that one alone.

Drones to patrol the border for illegals?

http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/08/30/us-usa-immigration-security-idUSTRE67T5DK20100830

You may want to catch up on current events. Drones are already being currently utilized by the border patrol. They have been used to watch for illegal immigrants and have sniffer technology to search out drug shipments etc.

Drug smugglers, gun runners maybe, but illegal immigrants? Deputizing private volunteers? I'm guessing there'd be a lot of people lined up to get a piece of that action. Especially when deer and dove hunting seasons are over.

Funny, but the fact is there already hundreds of volunteers that patrol the border, although at this time they are not deputized and have no arrest authority. They simply spot and report any illegal activity to the nearest Border Patrol station. The Texas Minutemen are one such organization.

I am not opposed to a fence, as long as it's built properly (not through communities, schools and the like) and monitored professionally. Again, ensuring the border remains open, which will require a policy shift.
I'm not sure what you mean by "ensuring the border remains open" while saying you're not opposed to a fence? What's the purpose of the fence if you have an open border?

Now, let's discuss the final solution, ahem, that you proposed, before I cry some more. (Can't help yourself, can you?)

The stats you produced were interesting, indeed, and I certainly don't dispute them (Wikipedia, eh?), is your contention that a heavily armed, land mined barrier, attack dog patrolled barrier like the one that existed between East and West Germany will SAVE the lives of Mexican immigrants?

Are you suggesting by shooting, electrifying, guard-doggifying, etc., a few hundred people trying to slip past our 2,000 mile border (slightly longer than the one in Germany), we will encourage the rest not to die of exposure?

What I'm saying is that just like word has spread over the years how ridiculously easy it is to get into the United States illegally, word would spread just as quick how dangerous and hard it's become. The number of people attempting to cross would adjust accordingly.

If that's what you're saying, then I guess you support Cain's "current" proposal.

That's your opinion. I won't comment on you. But I will comment on your opinion: I don't know about anybody else, but I find it barbaric and fundamentally contrary to the principles upon which this country was founded. As someone who does business in the Border Region, I would not feel very comfortable knowing that my country was more fortified against Mexico than it was against escapees from Huntsville.

I saw how people lived under Communism, crossing borders (and towns) within the Soviet bloc countries... and trying to cross into Free Europe as well. What you propose is, in my opinion, un-American.

Un-American would be us preventing U.S. citizens from leaving the country if they chose to do so. Making it possible for our Immigration Services to properly screen newly arriving immigrants is far from un-American, it's just a common sense necessity given the world we live in. There simply was no danger when our grandparents or even parents emigrated to this Country that someone would attempt to blow up an entire city, cause mass casualties or carry out any number of other terrorist attacks against us. Our Country wasn't 14 million dollars in debt in those days either. Unfortunately, those are very real possibilities and economic realities in today's world and we have to adjust accordingly.
It's ironic that a guy like you who not long ago stated: "Fuck the founding fathers" now wants to hang on to the way things were in this Country 100+ years ago in order to justify his position on immigration.

What I'm also saying, and have before on this topic here is this: Once millions of people can't simply walk into our country at will, their attention will turn from looking to the United States for answers to demanding change from their own governments. Right now Mexico downright ENCOURAGES it's citizens to immigrate to the United States. It reduces any internal pressure that these people may bring on the corrupt Mexican Government. Much easier to assist the disenfranchised to leave than to deal with them demanding a better life from their Government. That's what the Mexican Government has done for the last 40+ years and it's why they are able to remain in power. It's why no real revolution has taken place in Mexico despite the horrible living conditions for most of it's average citizens. In the end, do you really feel you're doing that Country a favor in the long run by helping this corruption continue?


BTW -- Where are your people from?

Well grandparents, mother and uncles on one side are from Germany. Two of my Uncles spent most of their adult lives in East Germany while my mother lobbied to get them out. Only upon reaching age 65 where they allowed to leave East Germany with 24 hours notice and one suitcase, leaving behind a house, car, daughter (who refused to leave) and most of what they had built up and acquired over a lifetime. What they didn't do was hurl themselves on an electric fence. Call it......common sense.

[Yssup Rider]

Well I'm glad to see where you're coming from, and that you are so well versed in "current" events!

Thanks for the incite.

[Booth]

Originally Posted by Yssup Rider

You were being rude, and insulting, as has become your norm, DT........Your bitterness cannot be assuaged by any answer that I give beyond that............Now please come down offa that caballo and answer my questions.

Originally Posted by Yssup Rider

SHAME ON YOU.......SHAME ON YOU.....


What's your problem? I think you're pissed that your immigraion lawyer too you to the bank and mine didnt. Tough shit. Should have asked those hard questions before you tried to bring a Martian into this country!

Originally Posted by Yssup Rider

Calling me a liar only exposes your stupidity and aggressiveness.

Originally Posted by Yssup Rider

Again, you rely on insults and confrontational rhetoric to dodge MY questions. You know, you're just being hardheaded and doing everything possible to squabble, complain and whine. I don't want to spend my day deflecting your insults. I could do without the insults completely.




BTW -- when are you going to answer my questions, man? This time, please make it about the topic, not the poster.

Originally Posted by Yssup Rider

Well I'm glad to see where you're coming from, and that you are so well versed in "current" events!

Thanks for the incite.

It really is hilarious. I've seen less intelligent posters but I'm not sure I've ever seen anyone this clueless.

[Billy_Saul]

Originally Posted by Yssup Rider

Thanks for the incite.

incite = To provoke and urge on troublemakers

very honest of you to admit it

[Yssup Rider]

Originally Posted by Booth

It really is hilarious. I've seen less intelligent posters but I'm not sure I've ever seen anyone this clueless.

Talk about rude, insulting and harassing behavior. Thanks for your contribution to this thread.

No need to do that but obviously you have an agenda.

No prob boys. I've got more important matters to attend.

Hold your thoughts. I'll be back in a while. Maybe.

[Booth]

Originally Posted by Yssup Rider

Talk about rude, insulting and harassing behavior. Thanks for your contribution to this thread.

No need to do that but obviously you have an agenda.

No prob boys. I've got more important matters to attend.

Hold your thoughts. I'll be back in a while. Maybe.

I tend to agree with most of your political positions but not your approach. Most of the insults around here are dished out by you so I find it hilarious that you see yourself as the victim.

[ThrillBill88]

I just read through this entire post, and I'm amazed at how it so mirrors the political debate taking place today publicly regarding illegal immigration. One side presents facts, and asks coherent, intelligent questions. The other side refuses to answer the questions (because they can't) and relies totally on emotional feelings, and "you're a heartless mother fucker if you believe that way" attacks. Very interesting. High 5 DT!

[Spacemtn]

Staff has been asked by the OP to close this thread. We really try to leave threads open as long as the discussion remains pertinent and reasonably civil.

I am inclined to allow this one to run a bit longer, but please stay on topic.

Spacemtn
AustinModStaff

[Jack Goff]

Why can't Mexico build their own country up instead of trashing ours?recently I saw a pic of a little Hispanic girl with the caption "please don't deport my parents!" That's sickening to think they use their kids ad human shields like that. Vermin.

[gfejunkie]

Let's get right down to it, shall we?
Nobody else is going to say it so I will.

The only reason the left favors illegal immigration is because they think it is a cornucopia of democrat voters. Now and future generations. That way they will be guaranteed power in perpetuity.

Think I'm wrong? Who always bitches when voter ID laws are mentioned? Hmmm?

Helping someone to a better life has absolutely nothing to do with it. If it did they'd be spending more of their efforts getting immigrants into this country legally instead of defending the illegals.

Arizona had it right. Enforce the laws already on the books.

Borders... Language... Culture!