3 REASONS WHY THE KEYSTONE PIPELINE SHOULD BE BUILT...

[nevergaveitathought]

Originally Posted by WTF

That is like saying one objects to slavery laws and not to slave owners who used them. I object to eminent domain being used and then shipping the refined product out of country and getting a tax break to do so. I see no ' public good' in that. I'm really kinda shocked that you Tea Nuts do.

what?

you mix up so many issues i choose not to try further to deconstruct them

the nuances, which really are not nuances, are lost on you

[WTF]

I did not mix up anything, I stated wtf I object too. There is more than one thing, sorry you can't keep up.

[nevergaveitathought]

Originally Posted by WTF

I did not mix up anything, I stated wtf I object too. There is more than one thing, sorry you can't keep up.

errr..ok

[WTF]

let us break them down for you one by one...

http://priceofoil.org/2012/02/08/key...yer-subsidies/

When the work finishes later this year, this refinery will become the largest in the United States. It will have the capacity to process up to 325,000 barrels per day of heavy sour oil. The United States is not a significant producer of heavy sour oil. Countries that are expected to increase their production of this difficult-to-process crude include Canada (tar sands), Venezuela, Colombia, Saudi Arabia and Kuwait among others. So the subsidy received by this refinery is directly to enable the processing of a particularly dirty form of oil that is not produced in America.
Hmm, what was it pipeline proponents, including the owners of these refineries, were saying about reducing dependence on oil from hostile and unstable countries?

[gnadfly]

Refineries can change the type of oil they refine. Its not cheap, but doable. My guess is that the Bakkens find is heavy sour type crude or close to it. Most of the refineries in CA process heavy crude.

Govts offer tax incentives to win multi-billion dollar business. States do it to other states, nations do it to other nations.

As to the Domain lawsuit(s), most people were happily taking the money. As of last year, only a few actual landowners had filed proceedings. I guess in your opinion, the takers are happy slaves.

Your hatred of the TEA party further blinds you and your arguments are easily refuted.

[WTF]

Originally Posted by gnadfly

Refineries can change the type of oil they refine. Its not cheap, but doable. My guess is that the Bakkens find is heavy sour type crude or close to it. Most of the refineries in CA process heavy crude.

Govts offer tax incentives to win multi-billion dollar business. States do it to other states, nations do it to other nations.

As to the Domain lawsuit(s), most people were happily taking the money. As of last year, only a few actual landowners had filed proceedings. I guess in your opinion, the takers are happy slaves.

Your hatred of the TEA party further blinds you and your arguments are easily refuted.

Why do we have to offer a tax break? We are the one's that can process this shit!

Originally Posted by WTF

. Countries that are expected to increase their production of this difficult-to-process crude include Canada (tar sands), Venezuela, Colombia, Saudi Arabia and Kuwait among others. So the subsidy received by this refinery is directly to enable the processing of a particularly dirty form of oil that is not produced in America.
Hmm, what was it pipeline proponents, including the owners of these refineries, were saying about reducing dependence on oil from hostile and unstable countries?

Originally Posted by gnadfly

As to the Domain lawsuit(s), most people were happily taking the money. As of last year, only a few actual landowners had filed proceedings. I guess in your opinion, the takers are happy slaves.

.

How do you know people were happily taking their money? Could you provide a link. How about I provide one showing the opposite. See below...

Originally Posted by gnadfly

Your hatred of the TEA party further blinds you and your arguments are easily refuted.

Hate? i think they have it right on this issue. I think our posting Tea Nuts on eccie are the one's blinded by hate!

http://www.rollcall.com/issues/57_97...Printable=true
The latest obstacle to the Keystone XL oil pipeline project comes from tea partyers, much to the delight of
environmentalists

Medina said tea partyers are prepared to challenge Republican incumbents in primary elections over this issue.
T.J. Fabby is one such contender. He has made the eminent-domain issue a part of his campaign against state Rep. Jim Pitts, chairman of the state House Appropriations Committee. A spokesman for Pitts said the lawmaker doesn’t have a position on the pipeline yet but is a “big-time proponent” of private-property rights.

[gnadfly]

Fourth reason why the Keystone Pipeline should be built: to piss off WTF.

[Guest040616]

Originally Posted by gnadfly

Fourth reason why the Keystone Pipeline should be built: to piss off WTF.

Main reason why the Keystone Pipeline should not be built: to piss of Turdyfly.

[WTF]

Originally Posted by gnadfly

Fourth reason why the Keystone Pipeline should be built: to piss off WTF.

LOL...not going to piss me off but it might some reasoned Texas Tea Party folks that believe in strong private property owners rights!

That will not apply to our local Tea Nut that post in this section. They have become silent on this issue. Where is COG , CC and the rest of our private propert advocates?

[gnadfly]

Originally Posted by WTF

Why do we have to offer a tax break? We are the one's that can process this shit!

How do you know people were happily taking their money? Could you provide a link. How about I provide one showing the opposite. See below...




Hate? i think they have it right on this issue. I think our posting Tea Nuts on eccie are the one's blinded by hate!

http://www.rollcall.com/issues/57_97...Printable=true
The latest obstacle to the Keystone XL oil pipeline project comes from tea partyers, much to the delight of
environmentalists

Medina said tea partyers are prepared to challenge Republican incumbents in primary elections over this issue.
T.J. Fabby is one such contender. He has made the eminent-domain issue a part of his campaign against state Rep. Jim Pitts, chairman of the state House Appropriations Committee. A spokesman for Pitts said the lawmaker doesn’t have a position on the pipeline yet but is a “big-time proponent” of private-property rights.

Nope, its you doing the hating. So you found an year old article that some TEA partier challenged a guy. Like a politician from any party hasn't made Domain an issue ever. BFD. Yes, the vast majority of people will be happily cashing their checks. Tax incentives are offered to get billions of dollars worth of business. You really are this dense.

[WTF]

Originally Posted by gnadfly

Like a politician from any party hasn't made Domain an issue ever. BFD. Yes, the vast majority of people will be happily cashing their checks. Tax incentives are offered to get billions of dollars worth of business. You really are this dense.

BFD? It isn't your land , right? Who cares if the government can take it without your permission. We have a Canadian Co that needs to sell oil to China! Build them a pipeline and oh btw let's give refineries they are doing business with a tax subsidy along the way!

So helping companies with tax incentives or loans is a-ok now with you, Solendra was hunky dory. Or are you just picking and choosing who you wish to treat better/worse?

Originally Posted by gnadfly

Nope, its you doing the hating. So you found an year old article that some TEA partier challenged a guy.

So you have found nothing to support your lie? No articles stating how happy private land owners are about Keystone's land grab.
http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?se...cus&id=8557072

When we asked Hill why he's standing in their way, he replied, "I don't think I am. I've been willing to make a deal with a reasonable person, they just haven't shown me that person yet."
So the pipeline company took it and the county set a price -- all before Hill said yes, just as Texas law allows.
Once pipeline companies pick their route through Texas they have to buy rights to use the land. But if they can't reach a deal, Texas law allows pipeline companies to seize it using eminent domain. It isn't the government doing it -- they don't even need government permission -- it's a private company seizing someone else's private land to make private profits.
"It wasn't anytime at all before people started asking who are these SOBs? They come in like they own the place," Hill said.
Hill isn't alone. Transcanada, which is already working in other parts of the country, says it's made deals with landowners for 99 percent of the Texas land it needs, but is still in court over eminent domain seizures with about two dozen Texas landowners. And while there's plenty of controversy over the pipeline, that's not Hill's problem.
He likes Big Oil. His father was once president of the Houston Oil and Houston Pipeline companies. He just thinks business was done better back then when deals were made outside of court.
"Maybe arrogance is catching -- like the flu or something like that," Hill said. "This is not something I want to do. I am 86 years old. My time is getting scarce."
The group 'We Texans' has scoured county courthouses across Texas and found at least 89 eminent domain cases. In our area, there are, or were, 13 in Jefferson County, five in Liberty County, and six in Polk County -- all in various stages. A recent state Supreme Court case may limit pipeline companies' ability to do this in the future.
- See more at: http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?se....xx0mLyw5.dpuf

[WTF]

Where the fuc is COG and his anti government rant? Is he is busy defending some reporter that got his feelings hurt when the WH told him to go fuc himself! To damn busy to comment on private property owners losing their land to big business.

[I B Hankering]

Farmers and ranchers can score thousands of dollars from a pipeline right-of- way, and they can still employ that land for raising crops and animals.

Right-of-Way Use

What are my rights as a landowner with respect to using the land where the pipeline crosses it?

The pipeline company has thousands of easements that have been prepared over several decades so not all easements read the same. In the U.S., you can acquire a copy of your easement from your county/parish office of records to see the specific terms of your easement. In Canada, you can acquire a copy of your easement from your local land titles office or government agent.

Generally, no buildings or trees are allowed within the right-of-way but roads and sidewalks are usually allowed to cross the right-of-way. Shrubs and bushes less than 4 feet in height are allowed within the pipeline right-of-way but Spectra Energy does not normally pay for damages to such landscaping if they are damaged during maintenance or construction activities. Seasonal crops may be planted over the company's pipelines. [Ranchers grazing animals is also permitted.]

http://www.spectraenergy.com/Operations/Pipeline-FAQs/

[WTF]

Originally Posted by I B Hankering

Farmers and ranchers can score thousands of dollars from a pipeline right-of- way, and they can still employ that land for raising crops and animals.

Right-of-Way Use

What are my rights as a landowner with respect to using the land where the pipeline crosses it?

The pipeline company has thousands of easements that have been prepared over several decades so not all easements read the same. In the U.S., you can acquire a copy of your easement from your county/parish office of records to see the specific terms of your easement. In Canada, you can acquire a copy of your easement from your local land titles office or government agent.

Generally, no buildings or trees are allowed within the right-of-way but roads and sidewalks are usually allowed to cross the right-of-way. Shrubs and bushes less than 4 feet in height are allowed within the pipeline right-of-way but Spectra Energy does not normally pay for damages to such landscaping if they are damaged during maintenance or construction activities. Seasonal crops may be planted over the company's pipelines. [Ranchers grazing animals is also permitted.]

http://www.spectraenergy.com/Operations/Pipeline-FAQs/

Don't get me wrong IB, I would probably do it too.

I grew up in Mont Belvieu (pipelines every where) and my best friends' Mom and sister were involved in a pipeline explosion and it took much litigation for them to get what they thought they deserved. In fact they did not get what they thought they deserved. So it is not all hunky dory.

Have you ever tried to defelop a piece of land with a pipeline running down the middle of it?

[I B Hankering]

Originally Posted by WTF

Don't get me wrong IB, I would probably do it too.

I grew up in Mont Belvieu (pipelines every where) and my best friends' Mom and sister were involved in a pipeline explosion and it took much litigation for them to get what they thought they deserved. In fact they did not get what they thought they deserved. So it is not all hunky dory.

Have you ever tried to defelop a piece of land with a pipeline running down the middle of it?

I have first hand experience working around pipelines, derricks and plants -- summer and winter jobs during my high school and college days. It's all dangerous but so is farming.

Scores of farmers and farm hands are injured and killed every year by the machines, e.g., combines, thrashers, etc., they use. I know a farmer that was struck twice by lightning as he was plowing his fields using an uncovered tractor. The strikes were years apart, and he was seriously hurt the first time, but the second time crippled him for life. There have been instances where French farmers were injured or killed when they plowed up artillery shells and pockets of trapped gas from WWI. Most professions have their hazards: some more than others.