Palestine

[Levianon17]

Originally Posted by ICU 812

Spell-Check says I spelled it right . . .

The Holy Koran is the fundamental religious reference for Moslems worldwide.

My ill-informed understanding is that it endorses and encourages the violent opposition of any non-Islamic teaching.

Again, I am not a student of Islam, but I do see plenty of activity around the world to support that perception.

I am open to correction on this.

I've always seen it spelled as " Qur'an". I've never read it and if it teaches any degree of violence to non Islamic people then it's far from Holy.

[VitaMan]

Continued drifting after a reminder by the administrator.....which is now turning into a 2 person
back and forth argument.


The 2 of you can start your own thread and argue there.

[Levianon17]

Originally Posted by VitaMan

Continued drifting after a reminder by the administrator.....which is now turning into a 2 person
back and forth argument.


The 2 of you can start your own thread and argue there.

Fine, here's a little story of the history of Palestine. It's pretty accurate for the most part.


https://www.bitchute.com/video/wJV4ryzBnf01/

[ICU 812]

Originally Posted by Levianon17

I've always seen it spelled as " Qur'an". I've never read it and if it teaches any degree of violence to non Islamic people then it's far from Holy.

There seems to be some uncertainty in spelling when transliterating Arabic script into Latin style lettering. I have seen the Islamic holy book spelled with either a Q or a K. I have seen the former leader of Libia's name spelled with either a Q or a K. There does not seem to be an international standard on that.

Interestingly (to me), when working in the Middle East diring the early 1980s, some3one showed me how to write my name in Arabic script. I have totally forgotten now. In signing the manifest to ride a helicopter out to an offshore rig, I wrote it as taught. The non-English speaking steward picked up the clip board and read off several names with difficulty. Coming to my name, he squinted a moment in surprise and spoke out my name perfectly!

[VitaMan]

Please start your own thread

[ICU 812]

And so, back to the topic of the OP:

Originally Posted by VitaMan

There was never a state called Palestine.


It is the name of a region given to it by the Romans, to remove the previous Jewish name for the area. There was never a significant Arab presence in the region. In the 1870s not more than a few thousand Arabs.


After the Ottoman empire was defeated WW1, it was decided to create a Jewish state within the region. The Arabs agreed.


77% of the region that was called Palestine was give to the Arabs for creation of Arab states. The dividing line was pretty much the Jordan river. The map clearly indicates how the region was divided in 1922.


Any creation of a new Palestinian state within Jewish land would be the creation of yet another Arab state. The land for Arab states had already been agreed upon in 1922.


The Arabs never accepted a Jewish state in practice. Arab radicals began terrorism and disturbances as early as the 1930s.


The only point to even argue seems to be that the League of Nations had no right to decide what to do with the region called Palestine. Yet it was the western powers than won WW1. Previous war victors had always decided what to do with the spoils of war. It was only the intervention of US President Woodrow Wilson that kept this area from being taken over by the victors this time, as he believe the era of colonialism and the practice of to the victor belongs the spoils was over.

At the end of WW-I, TE Lawrence ("of Arabia") had largely facilitated the overthrow of the Ottoman Empire in the Middle East. At an immediate post-war conference in Damascus, there was an opportunity for the liberated Arab factions to form a unified Pan-Arab political entity of some sort. They didn't.

They couldn't agree on the who, what, where and how . . . and the Western powers subsequently cut up the region, installing the House of Saud in a kingship in Ryad, the Hashemite family in kingship of Jordan, Feisal as king in Egypt etc.

They had the chance for a United Arab Republic or something similar back then and botched it.

Makes me respect the delagates to the 1789 constitutional convention even more, despite the flaws written into the final document.

[Precious_b]

Originally Posted by ICU 812

The History Of Palestine


came into existance 5th century BCE
The first clear use of the term Palestine to refer to the entire area between Phoenicia and Egypt was in 5th century BCE ancient Greece, when Herodotus wrote of a "district of Syria, called Palaistinê" (Ancient Greek: Συρίη ἡ Παλαιστίνη καλεομένη) in The Histories, which included the Judean mountains and the Jordan ...
...in this corner of the earth there was everything but a Palestinian state

Starting in the 5th century BC.

[VitaMan]

Evidently the treaty with Turkey after WW1 is what gave the western powers and the League of Nations the authority to decide the future of the Palestine region.

[ICU 812]

Spoils of War. A well recogn ised international tradition.

The Turks did get to keep Constantinople . . .a center of Western civilization for the thousand years prior to 1450 orso.

The USA still administers Puerto Rico and a few other places aquired after the Spanish American War (Git-mo?). . . .California and associated territories following the war with Mexico in 1848.

Spoils of war . . .and the victors get to write the history.

Frankly, I believe that we are already in another world war. At stake is the preservation of the post-Enlightnment civilization of the West. Our adversaries include Iran, N. Korea, Russia and most potantly, China.

At risk is every nation in Europe, Australia, Japan and Israel . . .along with countries such as the Philippines, Singapore and every other nation not aligned with China or the other adversaries mentioned.

[VitaMan]

The spoils of war tradition ended during the WW1 discussions.



While others were still interested, it was the objection of USA President Wilson that prevented it.
If not, the Palestine area and other areas would very likely have been annexed.

[ICU 812]

WW-I, Willson and the League of Nations was over a hundred years ago.

"Annexed" . . . . Annexed as were Poland and much of Eastern Europe by the Soviets after WW-II?

Then there is the annexation of Tibet by the Chinese of a few decades ago and their current efforts to annex the entire South China Sea.

Some folks look on it as a matter of "If you can take it and keep it . . .it is yours."

[VitaMan]

Drifting yet again

[eyecu2]

War is back on for both Palestine and Israel. I really don't see a functional purpose in it personally outside of blowing GAZA a new asshole. Perhaps the mindset is to make it completely uninhabitable...and the Palestinians will be forced to leave. If that's the case, I look for Israel to block all future aid trucks except for a very bare minimum while they storm the rest of the place to rubble. From what I see on the news, it's about 50% there already. It would surely suck to live there at any point. What's worse is no countries are welcoming the Palestinians into their borders. Tells ya something right there.

Religious zealots fuck up a lot of peaceful places.

[dilbert firestorm]

Originally Posted by Levianon17

I've always seen it spelled as " Qur'an". I've never read it and if it teaches any degree of violence to non Islamic people then it's far from Holy.

koran is english version of Qur'an

[dilbert firestorm]

ICU, you reposted your list with the mistakes (assyrian empire left out), why didn't you correct it? i guess you were lazy.

OP's point on palestine is a bit misleading.

Greeks were the first ones to use the word palestine, not the romans.

it was in reference to Philistine nation that was under Greek rule. Greeks named Philistine (Philitia), Palestine. it was meant to be an insult as the greeks found them nasty. Philistines disappeared as an ethnic group by the middle of Greek rule.

This is rather interesting that the greeks did this as the Philistines were of Greek descent. so they dissed their long lost tribe and didn't even know it.

then the romans took over. Once they got done with all the jewish rebellion they could handle, they renamed the kindom of Judah and the surrounding area as Syria Palestine. it was an insult to the Jews by giving the land the name of their ancient enemy, Philistines, who no longer exist.

I also should point out that there were alot of Jews living in then Arabia. many were forcibly converted to islam or die by the sword.