Input Requested: Sex Worker Rights Issues

[texasgoldengirl]

There is indeed growing conflict over the law in Germany: the abolitionists vs those who would like to keep the laws as they are. German sex workers are reporting some growing issues and certainly there are studies/papers being done in an effort to change the laws from what they currently are.

The term "Swedish model" is universally used to describe how the Swedes have structured prostitution law: complete decrim for the worker, complete and heavy criminalization for the client. This is NOT the same as how the current German laws are structured.

The German and NZ models are not the same either. Perhaps they are in spirit, but they are not simliar in how the law is carried out nor in how the sex workers themselves experience working under the two different legal systems.

XX
Amanda

[..]

Originally Posted by texasgoldengirl

The German and NZ models are not the same either. Perhaps they are in spirit, but they are not simliar in how the law is carried out nor in how the sex workers themselves experience working under the two different legal systems.

All true!

Actually my bad, i intentionally focused only on the theory and philosophy of law -- here .de and .nz are very similar (IMO comparsion of law and legal tradition on an international scale only makes sense on this level.)

the minor differences btwn. ..nz and .de re. paid sex law:

- nz is very explicit about safe sex, the law says vag/anal/oral all with condom only.
.de doesn't have this in the ProstG but e.g. Baveria has an extra addendum law for this. The problem from a legal POV is how do you enforce such laws in practice? e.g. this is a topic there the legal experts from the german police want stronger clarification (re. Baveria) from the legislative power.


- .nz allows much more re. "pimping" / procuring or what Holly Brooks would call mentoring / counseling.
the problem is IMO a tricky one, e.g. Dutch law allows too much, German law is more strict. New Zealand is lucky beause they don't really have much human trafficking.

---------------------

so much the theory, the reality of course is different: human trafficking is a serious issue in the US and the European Union (esp. Italy, Netherlands, Germany and Sweden)

NZ has by international standards almost no human trafficking. plus it's an island and has only a population of 4.5 millions people.

[WTF]

Originally Posted by ..

human trafficking is a serious issue in the US

.

Really?

Of course it is a serious issue. But is it reality?

http://www.google.com/search?q=human...8&sourceid=ie7

Do you really think that there is a huge problem here in the states of human trafficking or do you possible think it is overblown, a ruse designed to get more money for vice? I think it is the latter.

[charlestudor2005]

Originally Posted by WTF

Really?

Of course it is a serious issue. But is it reality?


Do you really think that there is a huge problem here in the states of human trafficking or do you possible think it is overblown, a ruse designed to get more money for vice? I think it is the latter.

I don't think it is as huge a problem as it is overseas, but I also think characterizing human trafficking is a ruse to get more money for vice is sheer nonsense. The response to human trafficking is a federal response, while the response to prostitution is primarily local. The reason for the federal response is that human trafficking is almost universally a form of slavery, while prostitution is not. Human trafficking also targets minors because that's where the big bucks are.

I googled this and in the short few minutes of research I found these websites (admittedly old, but studies tend to lag in time): http://www.humantrafficking.org/coun...tes_of_america, and www.uri.edu/artsci/wms/hughes/sex_traff_us.pdf.

[WTF]

http://www.sexwork.com/whatisnew/trafficking.html
But they are choosing this option and benefit from it in the long term. The media is over blowing the negativism toward trafficking that is filling the media often from those that think sex is dirty and terrible unless in a monogamous married relationship. Yes, I am sure there are abuses and real trafficking going on. That should be a crime if not consenting adults. But it has nothing to do with most prostitution. Trafficking is not what the media has made it out to be with the negative bias against "prostitution" in any form

http://distributedrepublic.net/archives/2009/01/20/the-myth-human-trafficking
To sound the left-libertarian note, this is yet another case where patriarchal "traditional" cultural values about the proper role of women in society and the moral legitimacy of sex work leads to unlibertarian conclusions: millions of dollars wasted, mostly by governments, on essentially an urban legend popularized and believed by prudish traditionalists.

Originally Posted by charlestudor2005

I don't think it is as huge a problem as it is overseas, but I also think characterizing human trafficking is a ruse to get more money for vice is sheer nonsense. .

That is exactly what I said. It is not a huge problem here in the states. Now lets try and stay linear and conclude that if it is not a huge problem, yet they are making it out to be then maybe just maybe they are trying to procure money. Let's use some common sense here.

[charlestudor2005]

See below.

Originally Posted by WTF

Yes, I am sure there are abuses and real trafficking going on. That should be a crime if not consenting adults. But it has nothing to do with most prostitution. Trafficking is not what the media has made it out to be with the negative bias against "prostitution" in any form

Agreed. The media probably widens the definition of human trafficking quite a bit. However, the term as you and I would define it (fairly narrowly I think) does exhibit itself in the Good Ole USA. I think we both would be against this form of slavery.

http://distributedrepublic.net/archives/2009/01/20/the-myth-human-trafficking
To sound the left-libertarian note, this is yet another case where patriarchal "traditional" cultural values about the proper role of women in society and the moral legitimacy of sex work leads to unlibertarian conclusions: millions of dollars wasted, mostly by governments, on essentially an urban legend popularized and believed by prudish traditionalists.

Interesting. I'm not familiar with this website, and when that happens, I try to determine its owners to see if the whole bent if the website is biased. Couldn't tell from this one. I admit that the US has populated with a lot of prudes. However, I also realize the world if full of tyrants bent on controlling the powerless, and this would include human traffickers. The reason this is becoming an issue in the US, I think, is because, even in this economy, there is more money to be made in human trafficking here than in third world countries.

[WTF]

Originally Posted by charlestudor2005

The reason this is becoming an issue in the US, I think, is because, even in this economy, there is more money to be made in human trafficking here than in third world countries.
.

Yes and my point is that there is money and jobs to be justified fighting a moral crime (prostitution) on the grounds that there is human trafficking in it. While it maybe in some small form, it is nothing like they pretend. It is a way to shove their moral down our throats.

Most people are not against prostitution in general (as long as it is not in their neighborhood). So for the morally just to get funds they need to ramp up this BS pandemic of slavery. Check out the new book SuperFreakenomics , they (Religious Right) did the same thing at the turn of the century.

Originally Posted by charlestudor2005

However, I also realize the world if full of tyrants bent on controlling the powerless, and this would include human traffickers.

Do you ever stop to think that the control you speak of is at times just a matter of prespective? Just because your tyrant is aganist another tyrant, makes your tyrant no less a tyrant.

[charlestudor2005]

See below:

Originally Posted by WTF

So for the morally just to get funds they need to ramp up this BS pandemic of slavery.

Never called it a "pandemic" in this country. It may be in other remote places where wealthy people fly in and purchase blue-eyed blonds or children for big dollars, and force them to do their every whim. But not here.

Do you ever stop to think that the control you speak of is at times just a matter of prespective? Just because your tyrant is aganist another tyrant, makes your tyrant no less a tyrant.

To quote Molly Ivins, "One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter."

[WTF]

Originally Posted by charlestudor2005

Never called it a "pandemic" in this country. It may be in other remote places where wealthy people fly in and purchase blue-eyed blonds or children for big dollars, and force them to do their every whim. But not here.

:

We were talking about THIS country...or at least I was.

That was my entire point. White slavery is basically a myth in this country. A way for the police to get funding that they otherwise could not get.

Originally Posted by charlestudor2005

To quote Molly Ivins, "One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter."

Just compare Bush and Obama supporters. At least the wing nuts in each camp. (Read Tea Party on the right and GlobalWarmers on the left) They are a two headed coin.

[Legal Tender]

Originally Posted by ..

Excuse me, but IMO this is total BS.

a) sex work is a job, which can indeed be enjoyable (sometimes very much!) but nevertheless it's a job. (honestly people that have problems seperating paid sex from love are usually the ones that tend to end up in emotional troubles.)

b) there are female, male, transgender, homosexual,, heteroesexual etc. sex workers

I don't get your logic. My proposition is that all women are sex workers. Of course sex work is a job: you get paid for doing it. And, the suggestion that because some males, transgender . . . are sex workers that joins the issue of whether all women are sex workers is illogical. Some non-females are sex workers but that doesn't address my truth: all women are sex workers. And, God bless the successful ones.

Originally Posted by LynetteMarie

I want to clarify that by the term "sex worker" I am referring to erotic labor in exchange for an agreed upon exchange of goods, money or services. The world of sex work includes phone sex, exotic dance, sensual massage, etc...not just prostitution.

LynetteMarie, there can't be any productive discussion without agreement on terminology. Respectfully, I don't thing the term "sex worker" includes anyone who engages in "erotic labor'. I thought that is what those women with an intact sense of self and value do every moment of every day. With more sincere regard to your fellow hobbyist, Bill Clinton, a blow job is sex. Digressing, like Chris Rock said: " And, God's blessing when he put women on this earth that love to such a dick". Erotic dance, to me is a waste of time unless I am going to have sex with the dancer. Erotic dancers, if they are successful, are the one's that every guy wants sex with her. If she fucks for money or monies worth, she is a sex worker.

I submit that a sex worker must be a prostitute, but hopefully is a courtesan

[WTF]

Originally Posted by Legal Tender

My proposition is that all women are sex workers.

I agree.

Not only that I think we are all hookers in some form or fashion. A vicious cycle called life.

[discreetgent]

Originally Posted by WTF

Not only that I think we are all hookers in some form or fashion. A vicious cycle called life.

So in the United States, outside of legal Nevada brothels, life is illegal.

[atlcomedy]

Originally Posted by discreetgent

life is illegal.

That would make a real cool T-Shirt

[charlestudor2005]

Originally Posted by discreetgent

life is illegal.

Originally Posted by atlcomedy

That would make a real cool T-Shirt

Not to hijack the thread or anything, but "pro-life is illegal" would make a cool T-shirt. Oh, well...

[WTF]

Originally Posted by discreetgent

So in the United States, outside of legal Nevada brothels, life is illegal.

No prostituting/pimpimg yourself to work certain jobs is perfectly legal. It makes no sense that one is legal and the other isn't, you are basically prostituting yourself to work some Corporate job. What is a head hunter if not a pimp?

The man is just keeping good woman down through some moral criteria! LOL