Home School or Public School?

[Yssup Rider]

Lets see how we'll vouchers are working in Louisiana... Granted, after Katrina, the public school infrastructure was decimated, so vouchers made sense until the schools got back open, but Jindal's government tried to expand it and, well,...

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/201...nal/?mobile=wt

Seems like it was a HIT in Oklahoma too...

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/artic...4_cutlin120235

Oh yeah, and there's that little church and state thing...

http://candst.tripod.com/tnppage/vouch3.htm

I thought you fellas LOVED the Constitution!

[Guest032516]

Originally Posted by Yssup Rider

I believe it IS a bad thing as recommended. Public school systems will be left to rot while trying to service the majority of American student with reduced income. Vouchers will NOT pay for private tuition. So if you give therm to low income families it really won't matter, while the districts to which they send their kids will either wither and die or become straight welfare.

either way, it's bullshit, and I BELIEVE IT!

I also believe that we will be doing the next generation damage (not to mention our country) by allowing the "belief" system of private institutions dictate what our kids are taught and exposed to.

Resegregating our schools is tantamount to child abuse.

I believe that.

Your last question is asinine. I'll try and remember that I thought you were smarter than that beforehand.

My last question was a sarcastic rebuke to your "people of non-color" wisecrack implying that only whites will get vouchers.

Vouchers don't have to be handed out to everyone. They can be targeted to failed schools and/or they can be based on income. That way you can assure yourself that affluent white people who already have their kids in private schools don't get assistance they don't need.

The average tuition for students in many private schools is less than the per-pupil layout in many of the nations failed public schools.

Vouchers aren't going to resegregate our schools. First, vouchers will probably desegregate a whole lot of private schools.

Second, the public schools are already segregated. When a neighborhood goes bad, the more well-off (mostly whites) move out and you are left with a school that is overwhelmingly black and Hispanic.

[Guest032516]

Originally Posted by Yssup Rider

Lets see how we'll vouchers are working in Louisiana... Granted, after Katrina, the public school infrastructure was decimated, so vouchers made sense until the schools got back open, but Jindal's government tried to expand it and, well,...

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/201...nal/?mobile=wt

Seems like it was a HIT in Oklahoma too...

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/artic...4_cutlin120235

Oh yeah, and there's that little church and state thing...

http://candst.tripod.com/tnppage/vouch3.htm

I thought you fellas LOVED the Constitution!

There are plenty of non-secular private schools. And a voucher system will help create even more. Opponents of voucher systems hide behind the parochial school problem in order to oppose any scheme that might undermine the failed public schools system.

[Yssup Rider]

Originally Posted by ExNYer

There are plenty of non-secular private schools. And a voucher system will help create even more. Opponents of voucher systems hide behind the parochial school problem in order to oppose any scheme that might undermine the failed public schools system.

Not here in Austin.

and is it your contention that school vouchers would be good because they'd desegregate private schools?

at least you're telling us why WE oppose it. Why dont you tell us why the courts oppose it, since you're suddenly clairvoyant.

YOW!

[Guest032516]

Originally Posted by Yssup Rider

Not here Austin
There will be once vouchers are in place.

and is it your contention that school vouchers would be good because they'd desegregate private schools?
Why not? If diversity is supposed to be good in the workplace, the universities, and the public schools, why not the private schools? Desegregation may not necessarily follow in every instance. If more private schools open up in more neighborhoods, people will send their kids to the nearest private school. So, the private schools may reflect the neighborhood. If the neighborhood is predominantly minority, the private school will be, too.

at least you're telling us why WE oppose it. Why dont you tell us why the courts oppose it, since you're suddenly clairvoyant.
What's clairvoyant go to do with it? Just read the court opinions. The rulings vary from state to state. Some involve church and state because the vouchers go to parochial schools. Others are funding issues. The state constitution requires that school taxes go to the public school system, not to private schools - even if secular. That means they either have to change the state constitution or use a different tax source.

YOW! OUCH!

Are you THAT steeped in teachers union rhetoric that you cannot allow any alternative arrangement that might undermine their control over our kids?

[Yssup Rider]

I have no love for the teachers unions. More clairvoyance.

BTW -- your kids might be in schools, but are past grad school. and I still pay for yours.... I say they gotta sit next to the rest of the kids. You do t like it, home school 'em. Im sure you're well qualified.

[CuteOldGuy]

[Yssup Rider]

Jerkoff.

[Guest032516]

Originally Posted by Yssup Rider

I have no love for the teachers unions. More clairvoyance.

BTW -- your kids might be in schools, but are past grad school. and I still pay for yours.... I say they gotta sit next to the rest of the kids. You do t like it, home school 'em. Im sure you're well qualified.

You say my kids "gotta sit next to the rest of the kids"? I don't get a choice in this?

Thanks for a peek into the mind of the "progressive". I'll pass.

"Liberals are for anything, so long as it's mandatory" - George Will

[TexTushHog]

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

Well, then, TTH, I suppose you support vouchers so that poor people can compete for spots in the private schools that, for now, only the rich can afford. It's nice to know you are on our side, for once.

All voucher plans that I've seen only cover a small percentage of the cost of a private school, so it's meaningless for a truly poor person. It nay help an upper middle class family that otherwise couldn't afford private school, but poor kids aren't going to get into St. Mark's or Hockaday on a voucher. Likewise, there is no guarantee that the schools will take the poor kid.

[TexTushHog]

Originally Posted by ExNYer

My last question was a sarcastic rebuke to your "people of non-color" wisecrack implying that only whites will get vouchers.

Vouchers don't have to be handed out to everyone. They can be targeted to failed schools and/or they can be based on income. That way you can assure yourself that affluent white people who already have their kids in private schools don't get assistance they don't need.

The average tuition for students in many private schools is less than the per-pupil layout in many of the nations failed public schools.

Vouchers aren't going to resegregate our schools. First, vouchers will probably desegregate a whole lot of private schools.

Second, the public schools are already segregated. When a neighborhood goes bad, the more well-off (mostly whites) move out and you are left with a school that is overwhelmingly black and Hispanic.

So you're telling me you'd support a voucher program that limited vouchers to those who make less than 40% of the median household income? That would put the income threshold at $20,000 household income. And since we're not giving it to everybody, lets give them a REAL voucher --$20,000/year/kid so they can really pay for ALL the private school bill. You for that?

[Guest032516]

Originally Posted by TexTushHog

All voucher plans that I've seen only cover a small percentage of the cost of a private school, so it's meaningless for a truly poor person. It nay help an upper middle class family that otherwise couldn't afford private school, but poor kids aren't going to get into St. Mark's or Hockaday on a voucher. Likewise, there is no guarantee that the schools will take the poor kid.

Originally Posted by TexTushHog

So you're telling me you'd support a voucher program that limited vouchers to those who make less than 40% of the median household income? That would put the income threshold at $20,000 household income. And since we're not giving it to everybody, lets give them a REAL voucher --$20,000/year/kid so they can really pay for ALL the private school bill. You for that?

I don't buy those strawmen arguments. Yeah, if you pick the tuition price at St. Marks, then you win, we surrender.

But parochial schools produce good results at a fraction of that price. Why can't secular private schools do the same? Not every private school has to have a planetarium or a first class football stadium and track. Especially from kindergarten through 8th grade. That is where the public schools do the most damage to students.

If public schools spend $10K-11K per student, why not give vouchers for that amount to parents of any student at a school that falls below a certain threshold. The voucher can only be used for non-profit, secular schools. Minimum science and math criteria can be set up to eliminate any intelligent design nonsense.

A classroom of 25 students would produce $250K for the school. If the teacher got only $100K, they would be paid better than public school teachers and there would still be plenty of $$$ to run the school. It will definitely encourage reducing the admin staff.

The schools won't spring up overnight; nothing ever does. But it will eventually create competition for the public schools.

[TexTushHog]

I know of no private schools that charge that little. My acquaintances who have kids in private school pay more. Maybe some I'm not aware of, but I suspect they don't get St. Mark's type results.

[Yssup Rider]

St. Marks isn't a secular school. And it isn't 11k/year.

Your argument is a straw man EXNYer.

If this is such a great educate kids AND pay for it, why hasn't it progressed substantially past the whining stage in the 20 years or so it's been pushed?

Dont say the teachers unions ... The new private schools would have a unionized workforce too.

[TexTushHog]

How much does Ursuline cost? That's Catholic and a decent private school. $17,400/ year. So a voucher for any amount less than that is useless for any family that making the median household income or less. Probably useless for those making $75,000 -$150,000, for that matter, especially if you have more than one kid.

http://www.ursulinedallas.org/podium...?t=135470&rc=0