Another Obama Outrage

[CuteOldGuy]

Europe won't be able to. That leaves . . . I don't even want to think about it.

[dilbert firestorm]

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

Europe won't be able to. That leaves . . . I don't even want to think about it.

I think china's getting too big for their britches.

they've been on criticism rant lately

[TexTushHog]

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

Who will intervene for us?

There is no need for intervention here. Out interest rates are at historic all time lows. Italy is having to borrow at 7.5%. The markets have rendered very different judgments on our creditworthiness.

[dilbert firestorm]

with regards to Italy, it has a much bigger economy than Greece. Its been said, they're too big to fail and too big to save.

[CuteOldGuy]

TTH, do you really think those are the market interest rates? They're artificially low. When the top comes off, they will skyrocket. Do you really think we should intervene in Europe? We are about to go under ourselves.

[waverunner234]

Originally Posted by TexTushHog

There is no need for intervention here. Out interest rates are at historic all time lows. Italy is having to borrow at 7.5%. The markets have rendered very different judgments on our creditworthiness.

Italian 5 yr Bond Sale Monday for approx, $4Billion
Current expected rate 6.46%. If that goes over 7% the Euro might take a dive from 1.375 to 1.34. I'll be shorting the Euro like crazy and celebrate for the rest of the week. Then I'll fly my ATF and her gf over from Tucson and have a ball.
My biggest problem then will be to see if I can handle the 2 girls together 5 weeks after my hip surgery.
Lol I guess I'll find out soon enough.

[Marshall]

First, the overall debt level in Europe is perfectly acceptable. you have shockingly poor judgment on a wide range of topicsThe problem is the single currency. A currency union doesn't allow individual countries who have growth problems or modest debt problems (like Greece, Italy, and perhaps Spain) to inflate their way out of debt via currency devaluation. yeah, but dumbass, who gets hurt when a country inflates their way out of debt?....there's no easy escape from this problem.....debt is evil Those countries are stuck with a robust currency and have to pay their debt back without the ability to control the currency.you mean without the ability to fuck their people over......too damn bad..... Yet other nations whose economies have taken different paths wish for the currencies to remain robust, or worse for those nations with a weakening economy, want the currency to be even stronger.

Second, those European nations with the strongest social safety net have the healthiest economies.no correlation between the two No Scandinavian or northern European countries have any debt problems at present. Their economies are running very, very well.

Finally, the U.S. can choose whether to participate in LOLR support or not. However, whether we helped create the mess or not is irrelevant.you gotta take the medicine if you want the cure If Europe goes into a Depression, we will surely follow. If our intervention as a LOLR will prevent a worldwide Depression, it is in our best interest to intervene even if we had no role whatsoever in creating the mess.

China understands this, I think. But they're not going to sign on the bottom line unless we do. And probably vice versa. But playing a game of chicken with China to see who blinks first is a dangerous game indeed, especially given these stakes.

you are indeed a dumbass.....

[waverunner234]

Originally Posted by TexTushHog

Second, those European nations with the strongest social safety net have the healthiest economies. No Scandinavian or northern European countries have any debt problems at present. Their economies are running very, very well.

May I mention that Norway and Sweden (Scandinavian countries) are NOT part of the Euro. But my favorite country the Netherlands is a perfect example of a well run, strong economy with a triple A credit rating and one of the best (maybe THE best) social safety nets in the world. (If they only had a better climate....)
Yes, you pay a bit more tax but look what you get in place: A thriving country with a high living standard, a high education standard and very low crime. Government delivers like it should. So do the Unions and the Social Services.
Only there are fewer billionaires but hey no-one has a problem with that.

[TexTushHog]

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

TTH, do you really think those are the market interest rates? They're artificially low. When the top comes off, they will skyrocket. Do you really think we should intervene in Europe? We are about to go under ourselves.

And how are they kept artificially low?

[CuteOldGuy]

Fed monetary policy

[TexTushHog]

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

Fed monetary policy

Precisely. That is the entire point of controlling your own currency and having a currency large enough to have your debt denominated in that currency. Japan has significantly higher debt than Italy as a percentage of GDP (around 200%), but the interest on their debt is just 1% or so. Same with the U.S., although our percentage of debt (61.3%) is closer to that of the UK, (85.5). France (67.4%) and Germany (44.4%), than Italy ( 109.0%).

And note where the debt of the countries that do have very generous social safety nets are: Sweden 33.8%, Norway 26.1%, Finland 41.7%, Dennmark 39.6%, Switzerland 20.2%, The Netherlands 51.8%, and New Zealand 30.5%. Thriving economies, slightly higher taxes, and social justice all at one time. Quelle horreur!!

http://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?DataSetCode=GOV_DEBT

[Doove]

Originally Posted by TexTushHog

Thriving economies, slightly higher taxes, and social justice all at one time. Quelle horreur!!

Yeah, but those countries can't destroy the world 20 times over. So it's a wash.

[MrGiz]

Originally Posted by Doove

Yeah, but those countries can't destroy the world 20 times over. So it's a wash.

Doesn't happen often... but I gotta give it to ya... that was a good one!

[waverunner234]

Originally Posted by Doove

Yeah, but those countries can't destroy the world 20 times over. So it's a wash.

That's really a great feature. We can't lose that can we? Why not try to up the game so we can destroy the world 50 times over. That would really be helpful wouldn't it?
But I do agree with TTH here.

[dilbert firestorm]

Originally Posted by Doove

Yeah, but those countries can't destroy the world 20 times over. So it's a wash.

um, destroying the world 20 or 50 times over is impossible with current technology.