As Greece goes, so shall Puerto Rico?

[Rey Lengua]

Originally Posted by WombRaider

Nope, he described you, right down to your little jalapeno.

Then he was DEFINITELY talking about you then woomby / undercunt / rusty balloon knot / wanna-be jalapeno sucker and ATM master ! What's the matter, is your fat gut so big that you can even see your own piss spout anymore ? Ask shammy what it looks like or get him to take a "selfie" for you of it ! Then let the crying begin !

[WombRaider]

Originally Posted by Rey Lengua

Then he was DEFINITELY talking about you then woomby / undercunt / rusty balloon knot / wanna-be jalapeno sucker and ATM master ! What's the matter, is your fat gut so big that you can even see your own piss spout anymore ? Ask shammy what it looks like or get him to take a "selfie" for you of it ! Then let the crying begin !

You're the one that starts a fire when you wear spandex and swishy walk. Piss spout? Who talks like that?

[Rey Lengua]

Just because you peter-puffers use spandex as our "uniform" to show your ilk that you're "out" doesn't mean that the rest of us wear it. Projecting once again woomby / undercunt / rusty balloon knot / wanna-be jalapeno sucker ? Maybe watching MOOCHelle odummers fat thighs rub together when she does her waddle is what does it for you. She part of your "spank" material isn't she ? Come on now woomby, you can tell us ! We won't tell your Momma / sister why she has to go and get you a new prescription for your glasses ever 2-3 months.

[lustylad]

Originally Posted by WombRaider

The point was that PR and Greece's economic problems are not the same nor are they at the same stage in the process, as indicated by the very title of this retarded thread.

Firstly, PR made payments on wednesday that held off default, something Greece is unable to do. Part of PR's problems are also due to the ending of federal tax breaks that brought jobs and industry to the island. They are going to end up giving companies access to bankruptcy proceedings, allowing PR businesses to restructure their debt and there will be losses that come with it, but that's part of doing business, but they will focus on future growth.

Greece is further along in the process. Their creditors demanded AND got reforms in the way of austerity, etc., but they completely ignored the effect those programs would have on an economy that was struggling to survive and paid no attention to the prospects of future growth. Puerto Rico isn't there yet and we could learn a thing or two about what NOT to do, if we look at Greece as an example.

You give us all a good laugh every time you pretend to have a clue about economics or finance. Start by saying PR and Greece "are not the same" and conclude by saying "we could learn... what not to do" in one by looking at the other. Wow - isn't that helpful and full of insight! We can always count on undercunt to be both superficial AND self-contradicting at the same time!

Your Krugman talking points on Greece are completely wrong. Greece's creditors never "got" the reforms they were promised in return for debt relief back in 2012. The IMF report released this week made it clear if Greece had stuck to the agreed 2012 austerity program they would not be back in the soup today. The Greek economy was starting to show positive growth again until Tsipras was elected and reversed all the gains. So why should creditors (EU taxpayers) offer more debt relief and new bailout loans now? Fool me once...

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[lustylad]

REVIEW & OUTLOOK

America’s Greece

Puerto Rico is a failed welfare state that needs a Detroit-like overhaul.

July 2, 2015 7:29 p.m.

The Obama Administration is delighted to tell everyone that Greece isn’t America’s problem, but hold the schadenfreude. The U.S. has its own version of Greece in Puerto Rico, and the meltdown could be nearly as ugly when it arrives.

Puerto Rico Governor Alejandro Garcia Padilla this week admitted the open secret that the territory’s $72 billion debt “is not payable.” Europeans will notice the Greek-like reasons: excessive borrowing, anti-growth policies, human and capital flight, and the refusal of local politicians to address the failure of entitlement state politics. Oh, and don’t forget the policy damage from Washington.

***
Puerto Rico’s economy has been contracting for nearly a decade, and employment has shrunk by 14% since 2005. Its 12.4% jobless rate would be higher if not for its astonishing 40% labor participation rate, compared to 63% nationwide. The island’s population has declined by roughly 300,000 in a decade as young people flee to the mainland, where they can work as U.S. residents.

For those who stay, rich welfare benefits provide a disincentive to work. A household of three can receive $1,743 per month in food stamps, Medicaid, utility subsidies and welfare compared to minimum-wage take-home pay of $1,159. Employers are required to provide 15 days of vacation and 12 sick days annually and a $600 Christmas bonus. Government employees make up a quarter of the island’s workforce.hh

To pay for all this, politicians have borrowed and taxed to the limit. Public debt has tripled since 2000 and exceeds 100% of gross national product. In 2006 the territory instituted a 7% sales tax, which this year was raised to 11.5% and next year will become a value-added tax. Since 2013 Mr. Padilla Garcia has raised the petroleum tax to $15.50 from $3 per barrel, imposed a 1% tax on insurance premiums and the gross income of financial institutions, and increased sewage rates by 60%.

Puerto Rican officials like to blame destructive Washington policies, and they have a point. The U.S. minimum wage is a killer for a territory with relatively low labor productivity. A 1992 study from the National Bureau of Economic Research found that Congress’s 1974 minimum wage hike reduced Puerto Rican employment by 8% to 10% compared to what it otherwise would have been.

Yet in 2007 Congress raised the minimum wage to $7.25 in 2009 from $5.15 amid the recession. Speaker Nancy Pelosi was happy later to carve out a lower-wage exception for American Samoa, where the San Francisco-based StarKist operates a manufacturing plant. But Puerto Rican employers got no such help.

Puerto Rican politicians exaggerate the impact of the island’s manufacturing tax credit phaseout in 1996. But they are right to blame the 1920 Jones Act, which requires goods transported between U.S. ports to be on ships manned and constructed by American workers. This raises the cost of imported petroleum, the island’s main energy source. Electric rates are twice the U.S. average.

The island has made some reforms at the margin, including a 10% cut in the public workforce and a pension reform. But the government and most of its public agencies are still running deficits with liquidity crises looming. All three public pension funds, which are $34 billion in the red, will run dry by 2020. The Puerto Rico Electric Power Authority is seeking to restructure $9 billion in debt.

The upshot is American Greece. The territory can’t finance its current expenses much less its debt, while ever-higher taxes punish the growth essential to revival. The bleak prospects have caused Pedro Pierluisi, the territory’s non-voting Member of the U.S. Congress, to seek legislation to let Puerto Rico’s public corporations—which owe about a third of the territory’s public debt—file for Chapter 9 bankruptcy.

U.S. states can’t declare bankruptcy, but this constitutional constraint doesn’t apply to Puerto Rico since Article 4 gives Congress the “Power to dispose of and make all needful Rules and Regulations” of territories. Hedge funds that have piled into the island’s general obligation bonds like this idea because it would free up cash. The Obama Treasury and many Democrats are also in favor.

Bankruptcy would be painful and carries risks, but an orderly restructuring under a legal framework in federal court is preferable to a creditor brawl that would likely follow a default. Hedge funds, mutual funds and bond insurers would have to take haircuts for mis-pricing the risk and enabling Puerto Rico’s political mismanagement. Incredibly, yields on the island’s general obligation bonds were as low as 6% two years ago—below Illinois and Michigan GO bonds. They are now 12%.

***
But Puerto Rico also needs a wholesale political restructuring, not a mere debt rescue. Detroit’s bankruptcy provides a model for how Chapter 9 can help a basket case. Steered by emergency manager Kevyn Orr, the city used bankruptcy to rewrite labor contracts, trim pensions, restructure public agencies and reinvest in services like public safety.

If Congress does give Puerto Rico access to Chapter 9, it should cover all of the island’s debts, not merely its public companies. And it should require a financial control board that can enforce changes in governance and other reforms that its politicians refuse to consider.

Hillary Clinton tweeted the other day that Puerto Rico needs “real tools & real support,” which suggests she thinks this will help her with the Hispanic vote. OK, Madam Candidate, how about an exception to the Jones Act and minimum wage?

We doubt that bailing out Puerto Rico would be popular on the mainland, especially as Americans learn more about its profligate welfare-state politics. If Republicans want to use bankruptcy to help Puerto Rico avoid becoming another Greece, they should do it the Detroit way.

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[shanm]

^Thank you, IIFYIdiot, for the cut-and-paste update.

[lustylad]

Originally Posted by shanm

^Thank you, IIFYIdiot, for the cut-and-paste update.

Too many holiday beers already, sham-lady? I'm not IIFFY. I cut and pasted because the WSJ has a paywall that keeps out cheap, under-educated sewer rats like you. Not that I expect you or undercunt to have anything intelligible to say. Economics and finance are way above your pay grade. Now go pop another beer, find a tranny that looks like Moochelle and leave the adults alone.

[shanm]

Originally Posted by lustylad

Too many holiday beers already, sham-lady? I'm not IIFFY. I cut and pasted because I am a hare-brained moron like IFFYIdiot

There. FTFY.

And yeah, I've had too many beers. I'm American. I'm Celebrating American independence day. You got a problem with that you commie prick?

When is your independence day down in the sewer? When will you and the other cockroaches be getting together for the annual hoorah?

[lustylad]

Originally Posted by shanm

And yeah, I've had too many beers. I'm American. I'm Celebrating American independence day. You got a problem with that you commie prick?

When is your independence day down in the sewer? When will you and the other cockroaches be getting together for the annual hoorah?

Sure, limeydick. Go ahead and celebrate our independence. George III was a prick just like you are. Don't forget to sing God Save the Queen before you pass out. At least you are taking a day off from dragging this country down into the sewer.

If I drink as many beers as you, I'll stop and relieve myself on my way home from the fireworks. I'll arc the stream to land on your sewer grates. Golden showers for you and undercunt! Enjoy!

[WombRaider]

Originally Posted by shanm

^Thank you, IIFYIdiot, for the cut-and-paste update.

He loves to cut and paste op-ed crap from the WSJ. And then he lies, it isn't behind a paywall. I just went and read the whole article. He likes to feel exclusive, but it's hard to do when you're looking at 150 other trailers just like yours.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/americas-greece-1435874404

[WombRaider]

Originally Posted by lustylad

You give us all a good laugh every time you pretend to have a clue about economics or finance. Start by saying PR and Greece "are not the same" and conclude by saying "we could learn... what not to do" in one by looking at the other. Wow - isn't that helpful and full of insight! We can always count on undercunt to be both superficial AND self-contradicting at the same time!

Your Krugman talking points on Greece are completely wrong. Greece's creditors never "got" the reforms they were promised in return for debt relief back in 2012. The IMF report released this week made it clear if Greece had stuck to the agreed 2012 austerity program they would not be back in the soup today. The Greek economy was starting to show positive growth again until Tsipras was elected and reversed all the gains. So why should creditors (EU taxpayers) offer more debt relief and new bailout loans now? Fool me once...

.

They aren't the same. Do you contend they are? We can always count on you to drop by and lower the collective IQ a dozen or 50 points.

So, let's take a look at your 'reasoned' logic. The austerity program that was called for 3 years ago, wasn't implemented, but the economy was turning around regardless, then a prime minister that has been in power for 6 months, suddenly turned the economy sour? Does that about sum it up, dipshit?

Superficial and stupid, that about sums you up.

[lustylad]

Originally Posted by WombRaider

He loves to cut and paste op-ed crap from the WSJ which I call "crap" because it's way over my head. I just went and read the whole article but didn't understand a word of it. I like simple-minded answers like saying "they will focus on future growth." I hate getting bogged down with facts and details and complexity. I just like to spit out my superficial talking points and start calling everyone fags. My job here is to derail every discussion, not advance it.

FTFY.

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[WombRaider]

Originally Posted by lustylad

FTFY.

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FTFY is the lowest form of response there is. It illustrates you have absolutely nothing to fucking say.

[lustylad]

Originally Posted by WombRaider

They aren't the same. Do you contend they are?

You have an amazing knack for following up stupid comments with stupider questions. No dipshit, Puerto Rico is not the same as Greece. Or Cuba. Or Rhode Island. Or Arkansas. Your analytical skills got stuck somewhere in 3rd grade. You never learned how to compare and contrast, while highlighting those similarities and differences that are relevant to the question at hand (in this case how to overcome debt crises). Sorry, but I can't fix stupid.

Originally Posted by WombRaider

So, let's take a look at your 'reasoned' logic. The austerity program that was called for 3 years ago, wasn't implemented, but the economy was turning around regardless, then a prime minister that has been in power for 6 months, suddenly turned the economy sour? Does that about sum it up, dipshit?

Pay attention, dipshit. Because the Greeks never bit the bullet (on tax collection, pension reform, shrinking govt patronage, etc.) their economic downturn was longer and deeper than it would have been had they followed through on their promises. The IMF gives everyone else in the EU (banks, exporters, investors, etc.) a green light to do business in Greece again. It monitors compliance. When a country blows all its IMF targets and then elects a govt that makes a point of thumbing its nose at creditors, the money and short-term support lifelines needed to keep the economy afloat dry up very quickly. This happened just as the Greek economy was finally hitting rock bottom in 2014 and showing signs of turning up again.

Tsipras is driving the economy into the ground. He is a lying far-left ideologue who is trying to manipulate the truth about tomorrow's referendum. He will go down in flames.

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[lustylad]

Originally Posted by WombRaider

FTFY is the lowest form of response there is. It illustrates you have absolutely nothing to fucking say.

The truth hurts, doesn't it, undercunt? Especially when it's about you "having nothing to fucking say." Only a lame sewer rat with no game accuses his accuser of his own failings.