9mm v. .45

[I B Hankering]

Originally Posted by SpeedRacerXXX

Disagree 100%. There are a handful of people who would like to see no guns in anyone's hands. On the other side, there are a handful of people who want no limitations on what weapons a person can own and when and where they can carry them.

Unless you can prove differently, I will go with the premise that non gun owners want some gun laws but support a person's right to protect themselves.

Barack Obama, "I don't think people should be able to own guns." See also questionnaire @:
http://www.politico.com/static/PPM43...re_091096.html

Janet Reno, “Waiting periods are only a step. Registration is only a step. The prohibition of private firearms is the goal.”

Diane Feinstein, “If I could have gotten 51 votes in the Senate of the United States for an outright ban, picking up every one of them . . . Mr. and Mrs. America, turn 'em all in, I would have done it. I could not do that. The votes weren't here.” // "Banning guns addresses a fundamental right of all Americans to feel safe."

U.S. Senator Joseph Biden, "Banning guns is an idea whose time has come."

Nancy Pelosi, "If I had my way, sporting guns would be strictly regulated, the rest would be confiscated."

Rahm Emmanuel, “We're bending the law as far as we can to ban an entirely new class of guns.”

Michael Dukakis, "I do not believe in people owning guns. Guns should be owned only by [the] police and military. I am going to do everything I can to disarm this state."

Rosie O’Donnell, "I know it's in the Constitution. But you know what? Enough! I would like to say, I think there should be a law--and I know this is extreme--that no one can have a gun in the U.S. If you have a gun, you go to jail. Only the police should have guns. It's ridiculous.” // “Well, it’s [the 2nd Amendment right to bear arms] not really a right.”

Justice Sotomayor, ‘I can find nothing in the Second Amendment’s text, history, or underlying rationale that could warrant characterizing it as “fundamental” insofar as it seeks to protect the keeping and bearing of arms for private self-defense purposes. Nor can I find any justification for interpreting the Constitution as transferring ultimate regulatory authority over the private uses of firearms from democratically elected legislatures to courts or from the States to the Federal Government. I therefore conclude that the Fourteenth Amendment does not “incorporate” the Second Amendment’s right “to keep and bear Arms.”’

John Silber, “I don’t believe anybody has a right to own any kind of a firearm. I believe in order to obtain a permit to own a firearm, that person should undergo an exhaustive criminal background check. In addition, an applicant should give up his right to privacy and submit his medical records for review to see if the person has ever had a problem with alcohol, drugs or mental illness... The Constitution doesn’t count!”

Vermont State Senator Mary Ann Carlson, "We must be able to arrest people before they commit crimes. By registering guns and knowing who has them we can do that. If they have guns they are pretty likely to commit a crime."

William J. Clinton, "I feel very strongly about it [the Brady Bill]. I think - I also associate myself with the other remarks of the Attorney General. I think it's the beginning. It's not the end of the process by any means."
Sarah Brady, "We must get rid of all the guns." // "I don't believe gun owners have rights." // "The House passage of our bill is a victory for this country! Common sense wins you. I'm just so thrilled and excited. The sale of guns must stop. Halfway measures are not enough.”

Michael K. Beard, "Our goal is to not allow anybody to buy a handgun. In the meantime, we think there ought to be strict licensing and regulation. Ultimately, that may mean it would require court approval to buy a handgun."

M. Alan Dershowitz, "I do think the Second Amendment does provide for the right to bear arms. I'm one of the few civil libertarians I know who believes that. I hate guns. If I could press a button and make every gun disappear, I would do it. I hate guns with a passion. I would never have a gun in my home. I just hate guns."

[timpage]

Can you not read? All he is saying is that not all non-gunowners want to take your guns....which is so obviously true, I'm having a hard time understanding what you don't get about it.

Your post is meaningless. Some folks oppose ownership of certain types of guns, some oppose ownership of all guns and some don't oppose ownership. What is so hard to understand about it?

Originally Posted by I B Hankering

Barack Obama, "I don't think people should be able to own guns." See also questionnaire @:
http://www.politico.com/static/PPM43...re_091096.html

Janet Reno, “Waiting periods are only a step. Registration is only a step. The prohibition of private firearms is the goal.”

Diane Feinstein, “If I could have gotten 51 votes in the Senate of the United States for an outright ban, picking up every one of them . . . Mr. and Mrs. America, turn 'em all in, I would have done it. I could not do that. The votes weren't here.” // "Banning guns addresses a fundamental right of all Americans to feel safe."

U.S. Senator Joseph Biden, "Banning guns is an idea whose time has come."

Rahm Emmanuel, “We're bending the law as far as we can to ban an entirely new class of guns.”

Michael Dukakis, "I do not believe in people owning guns. Guns should be owned only by [the] police and military. I am going to do everything I can to disarm this state."

Rosie O’Donnell, "I know it's in the Constitution. But you know what? Enough! I would like to say, I think there should be a law--and I know this is extreme--that no one can have a gun in the U.S. If you have a gun, you go to jail. Only the police should have guns. It's ridiculous.” // “Well, it’s [the 2nd Amendment right to bear arms] not really a right.”

Justice Sotomayor, ‘I can find nothing in the Second Amendment’s text, history, or underlying rationale that could warrant characterizing it as “fundamental” insofar as it seeks to protect the keeping and bearing of arms for private self-defense purposes. Nor can I find any justification for interpreting the Constitution as transferring ultimate regulatory authority over the private uses of firearms from democratically elected legislatures to courts or from the States to the Federal Government. I therefore conclude that the Fourteenth Amendment does not “incorporate” the Second Amendment’s right “to keep and bear Arms.”’

John Silber, “I don’t believe anybody has a right to own any kind of a firearm. I believe in order to obtain a permit to own a firearm, that person should undergo an exhaustive criminal background check. In addition, an applicant should give up his right to privacy and submit his medical records for review to see if the person has ever had a problem with alcohol, drugs or mental illness... The Constitution doesn’t count!”

Vermont State Senator Mary Ann Carlson, "We must be able to arrest people before they commit crimes. By registering guns and knowing who has them we can do that. If they have guns they are pretty likely to commit a crime."

William J. Clinton, "I feel very strongly about it [the Brady Bill]. I think - I also associate myself with the other remarks of the Attorney General. I think it's the beginning. It's not the end of the process by any means."
Sarah Brady, "We must get rid of all the guns." // "I don't believe gun owners have rights." // "The House passage of our bill is a victory for this country! Common sense wins you. I'm just so thrilled and excited. The sale of guns must stop. Halfway measures are not enough.”

Michael K. Beard, "Our goal is to not allow anybody to buy a handgun. In the meantime, we think there ought to be strict licensing and regulation. Ultimately, that may mean it would require court approval to buy a handgun."

M. Alan Dershowitz, "I do think the Second Amendment does provide for the right to bear arms. I'm one of the few civil libertarians I know who believes that. I hate guns. If I could press a button and make every gun disappear, I would do it. I hate guns with a passion. I would never have a gun in my home. I just hate guns."

[I B Hankering]

Originally Posted by timpage

Can you not read? All he is saying is that not all non-gunowners want to take your guns....which is so obviously true, I'm having a hard time understanding what you don't get about it.

Your post is meaningless. Some folks oppose ownership of certain types of guns, some oppose ownership of all guns and some don't oppose ownership. What is so hard to understand about it?

It's only pointless "if", Little Timmy . . . and for the record . . . you are arguing that those individuals on that list who were elected to public office, or who were appointed to public office by elected officials, do not represent the people who elected them!?! Is that a correct understanding of your position, Little Timmy?

[SpeedRacerXXX]

Originally Posted by I B Hankering

Barack Obama, "I don't think people should be able to own guns." See also questionnaire @:
http://www.politico.com/static/PPM43...re_091096.html

Janet Reno, “Waiting periods are only a step. Registration is only a step. The prohibition of private firearms is the goal.”

Diane Feinstein, “If I could have gotten 51 votes in the Senate of the United States for an outright ban, picking up every one of them . . . Mr. and Mrs. America, turn 'em all in, I would have done it. I could not do that. The votes weren't here.” // "Banning guns addresses a fundamental right of all Americans to feel safe."

U.S. Senator Joseph Biden, "Banning guns is an idea whose time has come."

Rahm Emmanuel, “We're bending the law as far as we can to ban an entirely new class of guns.”

Michael Dukakis, "I do not believe in people owning guns. Guns should be owned only by [the] police and military. I am going to do everything I can to disarm this state."

Rosie O’Donnell, "I know it's in the Constitution. But you know what? Enough! I would like to say, I think there should be a law--and I know this is extreme--that no one can have a gun in the U.S. If you have a gun, you go to jail. Only the police should have guns. It's ridiculous.” // “Well, it’s [the 2nd Amendment right to bear arms] not really a right.”

Justice Sotomayor, ‘I can find nothing in the Second Amendment’s text, history, or underlying rationale that could warrant characterizing it as “fundamental” insofar as it seeks to protect the keeping and bearing of arms for private self-defense purposes. Nor can I find any justification for interpreting the Constitution as transferring ultimate regulatory authority over the private uses of firearms from democratically elected legislatures to courts or from the States to the Federal Government. I therefore conclude that the Fourteenth Amendment does not “incorporate” the Second Amendment’s right “to keep and bear Arms.”’

John Silber, “I don’t believe anybody has a right to own any kind of a firearm. I believe in order to obtain a permit to own a firearm, that person should undergo an exhaustive criminal background check. In addition, an applicant should give up his right to privacy and submit his medical records for review to see if the person has ever had a problem with alcohol, drugs or mental illness... The Constitution doesn’t count!”

Vermont State Senator Mary Ann Carlson, "We must be able to arrest people before they commit crimes. By registering guns and knowing who has them we can do that. If they have guns they are pretty likely to commit a crime."

William J. Clinton, "I feel very strongly about it [the Brady Bill]. I think - I also associate myself with the other remarks of the Attorney General. I think it's the beginning. It's not the end of the process by any means."

Sarah Brady, "We must get rid of all the guns." // "I don't believe gun owners have rights." // "The House passage of our bill is a victory for this country! Common sense wins you. I'm just so thrilled and excited. The sale of guns must stop. Halfway measures are not enough.”

Michael K. Beard, "Our goal is to not allow anybody to buy a handgun. In the meantime, we think there ought to be strict licensing and regulation. Ultimately, that may mean it would require court approval to buy a handgun."

M. Alan Dershowitz, "I do think the Second Amendment does provide for the right to bear arms. I'm one of the few civil libertarians I know who believes that. I hate guns. If I could press a button and make every gun disappear, I would do it. I hate guns with a passion. I would never have a gun in my home. I just hate guns."

As I said, a handful.

Joe Biden in a Feb 19th article in the GlobalPost:
He said the White House isn’t trying to remove all guns from American homes, but that limits and background checks just make sense.

Barack Obama in 2008:
“I think it’s important for us to recognize that we’ve got a tradition of handgun ownership and gun ownership generally. And a lot of law-abiding citizens use it for hunting, for sportsmanship, and for protecting their families. We also have a violence on the streets that is the result of illegal handgun usage. And so I think there is nothing wrong with a community saying we are going to take those illegal handguns off the streets. And cracking down on the various loopholes that exist in terms of background checks for children, the mentally ill. We can have reasonable, thoughtful gun control measure that I think respect the Second Amendment and people’s traditions.”

Diane Feinstein -- that quote was from 1995. None of the actions she has recently taken have even hinted at such measures. Yes, she is extreme but not to the extent that an 18 year old statement would lead one to believe.

Janet Reno -- again a quote from 1993.

Michael Dukakis -- even earlier - 1988.

Rosie O'Donnell -- really? Does anyone care what she says?

Justice Sototmayor -- I agree with her statements100%.

John SIlber??? Who cares what he said?

Dershowitz? I share his opinion of guns.

[I B Hankering]

Originally Posted by SpeedRacerXXX

As I said, a handful.

Joe Biden in a Feb 19th article in the GlobalPost:
He said the White House isn’t trying to remove all guns from American homes, but that limits and background checks just make sense.

Barack Obama in 2008:
“I think it’s important for us to recognize that we’ve got a tradition of handgun ownership and gun ownership generally. And a lot of law-abiding citizens use it for hunting, for sportsmanship, and for protecting their families. We also have a violence on the streets that is the result of illegal handgun usage. And so I think there is nothing wrong with a community saying we are going to take those illegal handguns off the streets. And cracking down on the various loopholes that exist in terms of background checks for children, the mentally ill. We can have reasonable, thoughtful gun control measure that I think respect the Second Amendment and people’s traditions.”

Diane Feinstein -- that quote was from 1995. None of the actions she has recently taken have even hinted at such measures. Yes, she is extreme but not to the extent that an 18 year old statement would lead one to believe.

Janet Reno -- again a quote from 1993.

Michael Dukakis -- even earlier - 1988.

Rosie O'Donnell -- really? Does anyone care what she says?

Justice Sototmayor -- I agree with her statements100%.

John SIlber??? Who cares what he said?

Dershowitz? I share his opinion of guns.

Your attempt to obsfucate their earlier expressed sentiments with later instances of public posturing fails, Speedy. Furthermore, Odumbo, Biden, Pelosi, Feinstein, Sotomayor, Emanuel, et al, all hold significant public offices, so it is disingenuous to refer to them as a “handful”.

[SpeedRacerXXX]

Originally Posted by I B Hankering

Your attempt to obsfucate their earlier expressed sentiments with later instances of public posturing fails, Speedy. Furthermore, Odumbo, Biden, Pelosi, Feinstein, Sotomayor, Emanuel, et al, all hold significant public offices, so it is disingenuous to refer to them as a “handful”.

When someone in power, in a National office, whether it be Executive, Legislative,or Judicial, comes forward and proposes legislation to ban all handguns, then I think you
have reason to get on your soapbox and bitch about it. So far -- NO ONE HAS DONE SO.

[I B Hankering]

Originally Posted by SpeedRacerXXX

When someone in power, in a National office, whether it be Executive, Legislative,or Judicial, comes forward and proposes legislation to ban all handguns, then I think you
have reason to get on your soapbox and bitch about it. So far -- NO ONE HAS DONE SO.

They've already proposed that such legislation is their purpose and intent. The time for protestations is NOW.

[SpeedRacerXXX]

Originally Posted by I B Hankering

They've already proposed that such legislation is their purpose and intent. The time for protestations is NOW.

Who on the national level, at this moment, has proposed banning ALL handguns?

[JD Barleycorn]

Not important? These statements were made by people in power and wanting to achieve more power. Old statements??? Mein Kampf was written in 1924 and Hitler was not elected (appointed) to power until eight years later and the war that destroyed Europe another seven years in coming. So 15 years between the words and the deeds. Still think that old words don't count?

[SpeedRacerXXX]

Originally Posted by JD Barleycorn

Not important? These statements were made by people in power and wanting to achieve more power. Old statements??? Mein Kampf was written in 1924 and Hitler was not elected (appointed) to power until eight years later and the war that destroyed Europe another seven years in coming. So 15 years between the words and the deeds. Still think that old words don't count?

There is an old saying "Actions speak louder than words". If you want to worry about statements made by people decades ago, feel free to do so.

Only a couple of the people you mentioned in your post are in postion to enact any such gun legislation at a national level, and most of them, despite what they may or may not have said in the past, have made recent statements stating that they do not support any such actions as you have proposed.

[JD Barleycorn]

Maybe they, like Hitler, learned to temper their words when they got into power. Go back and read some Reichstag speeches. AH almost sounds reasonable at times. Maybe that is how he got into power.

You want me to dismiss a youthful mistake then tell what ephiphany caused the conversion.

[SpeedRacerXXX]

Originally Posted by JD Barleycorn

Maybe they, like Hitler, learned to temper their words when they got into power. Go back and read some Reichstag speeches. AH almost sounds reasonable at times. Maybe that is how he got into power.

You want me to dismiss a youthful mistake then tell what ephiphany caused the conversion.

Like I've said before, if I worried about everything negaitve that could happen, I'd die from worrying. I'll let people like you worry about China or other countries invading us, let you worry about a tyrannical governement taking away our freedoms, let you worry about government taking away your guns, etc.

I'll continue to worry about those issues that have a reasonable chance of actuallly happening.

[I B Hankering]

Originally Posted by SpeedRacerXXX

Who on the national level, at this moment, has proposed banning ALL handguns?

Don't be disingenuous, Speedy. A list with ascribed quotes has already been posted.

[timpage]

Originally Posted by I B Hankering

Don't be disingenuous, Speedy. A list with ascribed quotes has already been posted.

And I could post up a list of the idiots you support who think all first grade teachers should tote Glocks as part of our educational programs....in order to protect 1st graders like those at Sandy Hook who were slaughtered because of the positions you support. You're a fucking dimwit, as usual.

[MUSHROOM MAN]

I still have several different models and brands of 9mm. My defense loads are jacketed hollow points and can more easily conceal any one of them in leg holster or shoulder harness. For a total concealment weapon, I have a Kel-Tech .380 that fits in my jeans pocket, holds seven shells and noone knows you have it period, I do love a .45, just too cumbersome to conceal