More gun violence, Connecticut School Shooting

[Charlie Drake]

Very sad about the deaths today, however at some point these deaths need to be put into perspective. And for you Gun Control believers, apparently you think that you can legislate crazy. Good luck with that. Here's some stats, the number of people killed in 2011:

Automobiles = 32,367
Guns = 9,146

Looks like we need legislation to get the crazy's off of the road far more than we need to focus on gun control.

Neither of these make the top 10 causes of death in the USA:

Heart Attack (very rare when with a provider) = 599, 413
Cancer = 567,628
Lower respiratory disease = 137,353
Stroke = 128,842
Unintentional Injury (accidents) = 118,021
Alzheimer's = 79,003
Diabetes = 68,705
Flu + Pneumonia = 53,692
Nephritis, Nephrosis = 48,935
Suicide = 36, 909

[markroxny]

Originally Posted by I B Hankering

You're the ones too stupid to connect the dots, morons. Timothy McVeigh killed 168 people and injured over 800 with motor fuel and fertilizer. Someone intent on killing others always has a weapon available.

Actually if strict laws were enacted and enforced here in the U.S., he wouldn't have been able to do that either.

More than 12 years after Timothy J. McVeigh used ammonium nitrate fertilizer to blow up the Oklahoma City federal building, Congress quietly passed legislation this month to regulate sales of the explosive.


But the Secure Handling of Ammonium Nitrate Act of 2007, part of an appropriations measure signed Wednesday by President Bush, falls far short of the strict law that some in the counter-terrorism community and federal law enforcement were hoping for.


"The bill really does not guarantee anything for the security of the citizens of the United States," said Bill Albright, a Defense Department consultant who spent his career at what is now known as the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, or ATF.


The law, which the fertilizer industry supported, leaves the U.S. with weaker controls on ammonium nitrate than Britain, Germany, Australia, Israel, Saudi Arabia and many other nations.


Ammonium nitrate has been used in terrorist bombings around the world, including the attacks on U.S. embassies in Tanzania and Kenya in 1998.

http://articles.latimes.com/2007/dec...a-fertilizer31

[waverunner234]

Just wondering what the NRA has to say about this, because, you know, guns don't kill.

Fucking stupid idiots!

[timpage]

Originally Posted by Charlie Drake

Very sad about the deaths today, however at some point these deaths need to be put into perspective. And for you Gun Control believers, apparently you think that you can legislate crazy. Good luck with that. Here's some stats, the number of people killed in 2011:

Automobiles = 32,367
Guns = 9,146

Looks like we need legislation to get the crazy's off of the road far more than we need to focus on gun control.

Neither of these make the top 10 causes of death in the USA:

Heart Attack (very rare when with a provider) = 599, 413
Cancer = 567,628
Lower respiratory disease = 137,353
Stroke = 128,842
Unintentional Injury (accidents) = 118,021
Alzheimer's = 79,003
Diabetes = 68,705
Flu + Pneumonia = 53,692
Nephritis, Nephrosis = 48,935
Suicide = 36, 909

Gun deaths in other countries:

Iceland: 0

Chile: 9

New Zealand: 10

Ireland: 12

United Kingdom: 14

Denmark: 14

Austria: 25

Japan: 47

The list goes on and on. Only South Africa, Columbia and Thailand have more firearms deaths than the US. We beat Mexico by almost 5 to 1.

[I B Hankering]

Originally Posted by markroxny

Actually if strict laws were enacted and enforced here in the U.S., he wouldn't have been able to do that either.

http://articles.latimes.com/2007/dec...a-fertilizer31

So now you're and advocate for government "prescience"? The government is to "anticipate" all irregular uses of all commercial products and put laws in place to forestall those "irregular" uses! Sounds like the plot for a Tom Cruise movie: talk about opting for a "Big Brother" government.

McVeigh's actions in 1995 are what prompted the government to more closely regulate fertilizer.

Originally Posted by waverunner234

Just wondering what the NRA has to say about this, because, you know, guns don't kill.

Fucking stupid idiots!

Considering the thread you started earlier today, it’s a wonder you have the nerve to say anything one way or the other on this topic, Wavy. It’s stupid fucking idiots like you who want others dead that perpetrate these attacks – and the key word is “idiots”.

[CuteOldGuy]

So, let's outlaw guns. It will work as well as outlawing meth, marijuana, abortion, liquor, and prostitution. Good idea, Timmy! I think you're on to something!

[timpage]

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

So, let's outlaw guns. It will work as well as outlawing meth, marijuana, abortion, liquor, and prostitution. Good idea, Timmy! I think you're on to something!

I'm not advocating that COG and have said so repeatedly. You've got enough problems coherently stating your own ideas and viewpoints, don't try to help me with mine.

Got any sort of a comment beyond that? Do you think it is in any way noteworthy that the United Kingdom had 14 deaths from gunshot wounds and the US had almost 10,000? Got anything pithy or smart to say about that?

[I B Hankering]

Originally Posted by timpage

Gun deaths in other countries:

Iceland: 0

Chile: 9

New Zealand: 10

Ireland: 12

United Kingdom: 14

Denmark: 14

Austria: 25

Japan: 47

The list goes on and on. Only South Africa, Columbia and Thailand have more firearms deaths than the US. We beat Mexico by almost 5 to 1.

"The Sarin attack on the Tokyo subway, usually referred to in the Japanese media as the Subway Sarin Incident, was an act of domestic terrorism perpetrated by members of Aum Shinrikyo on March 20, 1995.

In five coordinated attacks, the perpetrators released sarin on several lines of the Tokyo Metro, killing thirteen people, severely injuring fifty and causing temporary vision problems for nearly a thousand others."


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarin_g...e_Tokyo_subway


And where are your numbers in regards to gun deaths in Mexico, Little Timmy Boy, where private ownership of guns is damn near totally illegal?

[Charlie Drake]

Originally Posted by timpage

Gun deaths in other countries:

Iceland: 0

Chile: 9

New Zealand: 10

Ireland: 12

United Kingdom: 14

Denmark: 14

Austria: 25

Japan: 47

The list goes on and on. Only South Africa, Columbia and Thailand have more firearms deaths than the US. We beat Mexico by almost 5 to 1.

Your numbers are so wrong....Mexico has 3.35 times the numbers of gun related homicides per 100,000 people than the USA. That error alone makes your list very suspect.

If you don't like the Constitution of the USA then move to another country. Amazing you think we should try to fix something that kills (relatively) few people in our country as compared to other more significant causes.

[Whirlaway]

I hope Obama and the Democrats make "ban guns" an issue; it will mire them down. It will whittle away their support from the moderates.

They will waste a lot of time, energy, money, and good will.

I beg the Democrats to take that fight on.

It will keep them out of more mischief in screwing the economy up; with nothing to show for it.

In the end. We will retain our rights to keep and bear arms.

[CuteOldGuy]

It is my understanding that in Israel, teachers are armed.

[I B Hankering]

Mexico: 34,612 Drug War Deaths; 15,273 In 2010
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/12/mexico-drug-war-deaths-2010_n_808277.html

Homicide in Mexico

Year: 2010 Gun Homicides 11,309

Source: United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime UNODC.2011.‘Homicide in 207 Countries - Mexico.’ Global Study on Homicide 2011: Trends, Context, Data.Vienna, 6 October.
http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/mexico

Private ownership of guns in Mexico is totally regulated and nearly totally illegal.

[waverunner234]

Originally Posted by Charlie Drake

Very sad about the deaths today, however at some point these deaths need to be put into perspective. And for you Gun Control believers, apparently you think that you can legislate crazy. Good luck with that. Here's some stats, the number of people killed in 2011:

Automobiles = 32,367
Guns = 9,146

Looks like we need legislation to get the crazy's off of the road far more than we need to focus on gun control.

Neither of these make the top 10 causes of death in the USA:

Heart Attack (very rare when with a provider) = 599, 413
Cancer = 567,628
Lower respiratory disease = 137,353
Stroke = 128,842
Unintentional Injury (accidents) = 118,021
Alzheimer's = 79,003
Diabetes = 68,705
Flu + Pneumonia = 53,692
Nephritis, Nephrosis = 48,935
Suicide = 36, 909

So now its all good because guns only killed 10,000.

Like I said, stupid fucking idiots!

[Guest032516]

Originally Posted by I B Hankering

The M1911 .45 cal pistol was developed to replace the M1873 .38 cal pistol during the American-Philippine War. The .38 cal would not stop Moros hyped up on drugs during battles in the early 20th century, and the .38 cal will still not stop drugged-up, insensate burglars, rapists, thieves and murderers in the 21st century.

That's a great overstatement.It is true that the .38 may not stop SOME criminals, but it will certainly stop MOST of them.

The value of a gun lies mostly in deterrent effect. Pull a gun on a burglar, mugger or rapists and 99% of them will run or stop whatever it is that they were doing. I don't think I have ever heard of a criminal who had a gun pulled on him, but decided to keep on robbing/beating/raping his victim because the pulled-gun was "only" a .32 or .38.

And for the remaining 1%, nearly all of them will be dead or debilitated when you actually do shoot them.

So, we are talking VERY small numbers when you talk about crazed criminals who keep attacking after you pull the gun and then keep attacking even after they get shot.

I read somewhere that the weapon of choice for mob hitmen was the .22. It was small and easy to conceal and was relatively quiet when fired. They just made sure they shot their victims in the head - typically multiple times.

So, smaller calibers are still deadly and I think they are good enough for the general populace.

But whatever. I can live with letting people carry .45s if I have to. Just make sure it is a revolver, not a big-clip automatic.

[CuteOldGuy]

What do you care, Wave? You're one of the people here advocating for the death of certain posters. You'd think you prefer lax gun laws.