Ok, I know we've done this before, but a refresher might be ok...

[pjorourke]

Originally Posted by SR Only

But when you need extra towels or you want something out of the ordinary it will make a difference.

Well see, that is the difference right there. In a normal hotel stay, I never see the maid so they aren't doing anything special for me -- just their normal responsibility. In a restaurant, I tip because I am interacting with the server in a very direct manner.

There are lots of jobs that involve doing hard physical work that I don't want to do. The fact that those jobs do or don't pay well is irrelevant. That was the pay rate the employer and employee agreed to. What I think of it has nothing to do with it.

[Gryphon]

Originally Posted by pjorourke

There are lots of jobs that involve doing hard physical work that I don't want to do. The fact that those jobs do or don't pay well is irrelevant. That was the pay rate the employer and employee agreed to. What I think of it has nothing to do with it.

I agree to a point, but not all of those jobs are equivalent. When someone is doing a hard, physical, low paying job that involves personal care of me (in this case cleaning up my hotel room), I think a tip is appropriate.

[pjorourke]

There is no such thing as "equivalent jobs". Its a myth perpetrated by the comparable worth folks.

And if you feel that way, then tip. You don't need my permission. And I don't need yours to not tip.

[atlcomedy]

Originally Posted by pjorourke

Well see, that is the difference right there. In a normal hotel stay, I never see the maid so they aren't doing anything special for me -- just their normal responsibility. In a restaurant, I tip because I am interacting with the server in a very direct manner.

There are lots of jobs that involve doing hard physical work that I don't want to do. The fact that those jobs do or don't pay well is irrelevant. That was the pay rate the employer and employee agreed to. What I think of it has nothing to do with it.

Originally Posted by Gryphon

I agree to a point, but not all of those jobs are equivalent. When someone is doing a hard, physical, low paying job that involves personal care of me (in this case cleaning up my hotel room), I think a tip is appropriate.

Originally Posted by pjorourke

There is no such thing as "equivalent jobs". Its a myth perpetrated by the comparable worth folks.

And if you feel that way, then tip. You don't need my permission. And I don't need yours to not tip.

Agree with PJ.

btw, the majority of my hotel stays involve checking in after the maid has left for the day, using the bed, maybe having an inroom meal/maybe not/but placing the tray and refuge outside the room (which is removed before the maid arrives), using the toilet once or twice and using the shower once or twice. Any garbage I accumulate is placed in a garbage can. I check out before she ever arrives.

If you feel guilty because of what she makes or charitable, by all means go ahead and tip. Give to a 501 c3 that supports outreach for the needy, depending on your income you can effectively double your gift.

[Gryphon]

Originally Posted by pjorourke

There is no such thing as "equivalent jobs". Its a myth perpetrated by the comparable worth folks.

And if you feel that way, then tip. You don't need my permission. And I don't need yours to not tip.

Of course there is no such thing as "equivalent jobs." That's why I don't treat the person who makes my bed and replaces my wet towels with fresh ones the same as the person who cuts the weeds on the highway. I think we're applying the same principle--tipping for personal service. It's just a slight difference in the definition of a personal service.

And, of course, you're right: tipping is always optional.

[atlcomedy]

The other piece that is out there that hasn't really been addressed is the different way some people tip if they are picking up the tab out of pocket or if it is expense account/bill back to a client. Then, within that context anything that can be put on a charge card vs. actual cash out of pocket.

I know and work with people that are generous as can be...happy to pick up a dinner check (at a nice place), leave a great tip (cause they can do it on the card) then stiff the valet (cause that would be cash)....If they take a cabs they insist it is one that will take their company card...they are paranoid about a papertrail for all their expenses...

It is kind of funny to watch a group (be part of a group) that is traveling together on business and work for a number of different firms (or even bosses within the same firm) and watch the different behaviors as it relates to paying for things/picking up checks.

But back to point, as it relates to cash tips, it is often the little guy/gal that gets stiffed with business travelers

[anova444]

I tip mine because there is a tip jar out. Do you think $10.00 to much to tip your mani/pedi-ist? That's what I tip them.

Originally Posted by Ansley

Good timing. If you answer my question I will answer yours in an hour or so. Do you tip a seamstress?

[Guest083011]

So you (speaking to the general group) can't reach into your pocket and through a few singles or a five to leave at the sink? This IS Diamonds and Tuxes. (or for Becky, Dogs and Tiaras). We drop hundreds (if not thousands) for a brief moment in time with some of the lovely ladies here, but you won't drop $5 to the person cleaning your pubic hair, splattered toothpaste, and other unmentionables? Deadbeats and Tightwads.

[WTF]

Originally Posted by atlcomedy

But back to point, as it relates to cash tips, it is often the little guy/gal that gets stiffed with business travelers

I'm a pleasure traveler but I do try and stiff all the little gals at least once!
Now you're telling me thats a bad thing!

[charlestudor2005]

This is from Wiki, and yes, I know its flaws, but generally think it is a good source. Under "tip" or "gratuity":

Etymology There are common inaccurate claims[2] that "tip" (or "tips") is an acronym for a phrase such as "To Insure Prompt Service", "To Insure Proper Service", "To Improve Performance", or "To Insure Promptness." These false backronyms contradict the verifiable etymology, as follows.
According to the Oxford English Dictionary, the word tip originated as a slang term, and its etymology is unclear. The term in the sense of "to give a gratuity" first appeared in the 18th century. It derived from an earlier sense of tip, meaning "to give; to hand, pass", which originated in the rogues' cant in the 17th century. This sense may have derived from the 16th-century tip meaning "to strike or hit smartly but lightly" (which may have derived from the Low German tippen, "to tap"), but this derivation is "very uncertain".[3]

However, the general description is:

A tip (also called a gratuity) is a voluntary extra payment made to certain service sector workers in addition to the advertised price of the transaction. Such payments and their size are a matter of social custom. Tipping varies among cultures and by service industry. Though by definition a tip is never legally required, and its amount is at the discretion of the patron being served, in some circumstances failing to give an adequate tip when one is expected may be considered very miserly, a violation of etiquette, or unethical. In some other cultures or situations, giving a tip is not expected and offering one would be considered condescending or demeaning. In some circumstances, such as with government workers, tipping is illegal.[1]

Here is the section on the United States:

Tipping is a widely practiced social custom in the United States. Standards vary, but generally, gratuities are given for services rendered in the restaurant, bar, and taxi industries. For most of the 20th century it was considered inappropriate for the owner of an establishment to accept any tips, and while this is still considered the standard etiquette rule, the practice has mostly vanished as tipping has become ubiquitous for certain types of services.[33] Tipping is done only by the host of a party.[34] Guests should never leave tips as this breaches the host's hospitality. This etiquette applies to bar service at weddings and any other event where one is a guest as well. The host should provide appropriate tips to workers at the end of an event.
Laws in the states of Alaska, California, Minnesota, Montana, Nevada, Oregon, and Washington require all employees to be paid at least minimum wage. However, it is still customary to give standard tips in those places. Elsewhere, wage laws allow employers to credit an amount of earned tips against the minimum wage, allowing them to pay tipped employees less than minimum wage. As of September 2009, this reduction can be as low as $1.45 per hour in West Virginia, or as high as 100% in Virginia, reducing potential wages to $5.80 or $0 per hour, respectively. Which employees may have their wages reduced varies as well. The Fair Labor Standards Act defines a tipped employee as anyone receiving more than $30 per month in tips, although several states set a lower $20 per month threshold.[35]
[edit] Restaurants

Tipping is customary in restaurants offering traditional table service. While the amount of a tip is ultimately at the discretion of the patron, the customary tip until the 1980s was from 10-15% of the total bill before tax, for good to excellent service, and since then has risen to 15-20% before tax.[36][37][38] Tipping percentages may fall when the economy is poor.[39] Waiters, on average, fail to report at least 40% of their tips according to the IRS.[40]
When a server has not adequately addressed issues a customer has with service, the patron may choose to speak with management to have the problems corrected before considering reducing the tip[38]. In extreme cases of inferior service, the patron may choose not to leave a tip. Though not considered a standard business practice, some dissatisfied customers go so far as to leave a very small tip, such as one penny, as a personal insult.
For large groups, such as six or more, many restaurants add a standard predetermined service charge (~18%) in lieu of the gratuity.[41] Reputable restaurants post their policy on a sign or the menu, or require servers to inform their patrons of such charges before they order. This charge can be verified by the customer on the bill to avoid tipping in addition to the service charge. A service charge is also taxed by the IRS. Customers have a right to negotiate, alter, or refuse charges which were hidden until the bill arrived.[42] A customer may choose to include an extra tip for the server over and above the service charge, or, if service to a large party is poor, to negotiate an alternate service charge with management.
While some advocate increasing tipping for the benefit of employees who lack direct customer contact, such as kitchen, bar, and bus staff, the funds may or may not be used for that purpose. Some service worker advocacy groups point out that some restaurants have agreements among the staff requiring servers to "tip out," i.e. give a portion of their tips to members of the support staff,[43] while anti-tipping groups point out that some establishments already allocate a percent of the bill (such as 3%) directly to the support staff from the receipts rather than from tips.[44]
Many traditional restaurants offer carry-out ("pick-up," "take-out, or "curbside") service, and standards for tipping for such services vary. Tipping is not traditionally required for non-table services. Some advocate optional tipping in the case of exceptional service or difficult orders, while those working in the industry[who?] often promote 5-15% as appropriate.
Tipping at fast food restaurants and coffeehouses that do not offer table service is not necessary, despite the common proliferation of tip jars, which are considered inappropriate by many.[45][46] Such tips may be divided amongst the on-shift staff (except for salaried management), whether or not such staff directly contributed to a patron's order.
[edit] Taxicabs

Most U.S. guides recommend 15% of the fare, more for extra services or heavy luggage.[43][47][48]
[edit] Government employees

Under federal law it is considered bribery to tip federal government employees. However, they are permitted to receive unsolicited non-monetary gifts less than or equal to $20.00.[1]
[edit] Other

Many retailers forbid their employees to accept tips, although this is illegal in some states, such as California, where the law states that tips are the property of to whom they are given, and employers may not require employees to refuse tips or share their tips with anyone.[49]
[edit] Taxation

In some jurisdictions, tipped workers qualify for a lower statutory minimum wage from the employer, and therefore may supplement deficient pay with tips. For example, the United States Internal Revenue Service (IRS) requires restaurant employers to ensure that the total tip income (both cash and tips added to credit or debit card receipts) reported to them during any pay period is at least eight percent of their total receipts for that period.[50] If the reported total is below eight percent, employers must allocate as income the difference between the actual tip income reported and eight percent of gross receipts.[51] Legally, tips should be reported as income for tax purposes by the recipient.[52] Form 4070 is provided by the IRS for the daily tracking of tip income by employees and the reporting of it to employers by the 10th of the month for the previous month's gratuities received.

This picture is the definition of a cheapskate. That's about what I would leave on a $7.00 restaurant bill.

[John Bull]

I agree with PJ so far as in/out hotel stays are concerned but where I'm there for multiple nights, I'm now inclined to leave a tip but where? On a cruise ship they have tip time but in a hotel you have maids fired for picking up money that wasn't handed to them. I rarely see the maid on checkout day. So, I've been leaving cash on the pillow and hope she gets it.

[Guest083011]

You're with PJ? Now THAT is kinky. Not that there is anything wrong with that. LOL .

I leave money each day, so that if a schedule rotation or someone gets canned at least they get what is theirs. So each day I make sure I toss out some singles or a five. Pay it forward stuff.

[atlcomedy]

http://blogs.ajc.com/the-buzz/2011/0...xntlid=thbz_hm

Interesting take from a reputable parking service here in ATL. Cliff's Note version: women stiff valets...

Comment section interesting (but DED may not like the portrayal of people of color)

[Bebe Le Strange]

Originally Posted by atlcomedy

Tipping

Not in the hobby but everyday life. restaurants, delivery drivers, hair sylists, cabbies, doormen, housekeepers, newspaper boys (does anyone still subscribe to a print edition?), shoeshine guy, etc. etc.

The impetus for this thread: I ordered a pizza today for late lunch. Total is $12.something (including a delivery fee). All I got is a twenty. Now I really don't think a $7.something tip is appropriate, so I pay by credit card and give him $4.something.

I believe in tipping well but not excessively.

So, what are your tipping norms

I generally tip between 15 -20% of whatever the service or product amount is. Mostly tip waiters/waitresses, hair dressers, anyone basically doing salon services. I tip the pizza delivery man. Generally depends on what the service / product is. I do this because I understand that most of the people in these type services live off tips. They generally are not paid beyond more than 2 dollars and hour.
------------------
Minimum Wage Tipped Workers
A tip is wage according to the Fair Labor Standard Act (FLSA). You are a tipped employee - that's for example a waitress or bellboy - if you receive regularly and costomarily more than $30 a month in tip. If so, your employer is only required to pay $2.13 an hour in direct wages if that amount plus the tips received equals at least the federal minimum wage of $7,25 per hour. Your employer can only do that if you are informed about the tip credit allowance, if your employer is able to show that you earn at least the minimum wage when direct wage and tip are combined and allows you to retain all tips. In a lot of states your employer is allowed to install a valid tip pooling arrangement in which all employees participate. When your job is a combined tipped and a non-tipped profession, the tip credit is always only for the hours spent in the tipped occupation.



See link for more information on this subject: http://www.paywizard.org/main/Minimu...ageTIPRecevers

[Redwolf]

I always tip the person who sacks and takes my groceries to the car, even though I could do-it-myself. Of course, I used to work that job when I was in college.