Alec Baldwin kills one, injures another

[Charley3]

Originally Posted by anmar85

I mean you're absolutely welcome to believe whoever you want is responsible and for whatever reason. I'm not really trying to argue who should or shouldn't be at fault. I'm just trying to explain the reality of what's going to probably happen because of this. Truthfully no one is probably going to be held legally accountable and it is going to be called a tragic accident in a dangerous field. I mean shit, do you guys not remember The Twilight Zone movie? That was a much clearer case of someone being at fault and nothing came of it. My only point was that even though they were being REALLY sloppy with procedure from the looks of things, you're going to be really hard pressed to pin that on a single person legally speaking. Maybe there will be some professional ramifications for some of the people involved, but that's probably as far as it is going to go. All I'm really saying is that realistically speaking, if the state decided to bring charges against anyone, and that's a very massive if, it would be to either the person in charge of the firearms on set, or the person who handed the firearm off. I'm basing this off of what I know about that industry from study and experience as well as what has happened in these kinds of situations historically.

My man…just an fyi, the two guys trying to debate you are not interested in anything other then pinning all of the blame on Baldwin. Everything is political with them. Baldwin isn’t a trump fan plus the Saturday Night live parody hurts trumps feelings. Poor fella.

[Typo]

I think there's a chance Alec Baldwin and, potentially, another person or two might be held accountable. There were enough significant safety complaints, including one related to gun safety on set, that were ignored on a repetitive basis. When safety conditions get bad enough that people walk off set in protest, things should be fixed. In this case, they supposedly weren't. I believe the gun safety complaint was made just the day before the incident.

For those reasons, I think there could be a case to be made for some flavor of liability or negligence. I'm sure there's going to be a civil case. Even if there's no criminal prosecution, I foresee significant civil accountability.

[Typo]

I think there's a chance Alec Baldwin and, potentially, another person or two might be held accountable. There were enough significant safety complaints, including one related to gun safety on set, that were ignored on a repetitive basis. When safety conditions get bad enough that people walk off set in protest, things should be fixed. In this case, they supposedly weren't. I believe the gun safety complaint was made just the day before the incident.

For those reasons, I think there could be a case to be made for some flavor of liability or negligence. I'm sure there's going to be a civil case. Even if there's no criminal prosecution, I foresee significant civil accountability.

[Salty Again]

... Blimey! ... "Typo" is a GREAT handle there, mate.

[berryberry]

Originally Posted by anmar85

I mean you're absolutely welcome to believe whoever you want is responsible and for whatever reason. I'm not really trying to argue who should or shouldn't be at fault. I'm just trying to explain the reality of what's going to probably happen because of this. Truthfully no one is probably going to be held legally accountable and it is going to be called a tragic accident in a dangerous field. I mean shit, do you guys not remember The Twilight Zone movie? That was a much clearer case of someone being at fault and nothing came of it. My only point was that even though they were being REALLY sloppy with procedure from the looks of things, you're going to be really hard pressed to pin that on a single person legally speaking. Maybe there will be some professional ramifications for some of the people involved, but that's probably as far as it is going to go. All I'm really saying is that realistically speaking, if the state decided to bring charges against anyone, and that's a very massive if, it would be to either the person in charge of the firearms on set, or the person who handed the firearm off. I'm basing this off of what I know about that industry from study and experience as well as what has happened in these kinds of situations historically.

You may end up being correct that it's possible no one is charged. But not for the reason you state. If no one is charged, it will be because Baldwin is politically connected with the Democrat's and New Mexico is a heavy Democrat state. The Attorney general in New Mexico is far left and is one of the soft on crime types.

That said, if you read the actual New Mexico law, you would see that Baldwin is most certainly guilty of involuntary manslaughter. That is clear. The law is clear.

[anmar85]

Originally Posted by Typo

I think there's a chance Alec Baldwin and, potentially, another person or two might be held accountable. There were enough significant safety complaints, including one related to gun safety on set, that were ignored on a repetitive basis. When safety conditions get bad enough that people walk off set in protest, things should be fixed. In this case, they supposedly weren't. I believe the gun safety complaint was made just the day before the incident.

For those reasons, I think there could be a case to be made for some flavor of liability or negligence. I'm sure there's going to be a civil case. Even if there's no criminal prosecution, I foresee significant civil accountability.

I will say that the walk out was over a completely different safety concern. The reason people walked out was because the lodging that was booked was roughly 60 miles from set. You can imagine that having to drive 60 miles after 12 hours of manual labor could be pretty dangerous. I still think we're playing pretty loose with the law though if we try to pin criminal negligence on a single person in this case. Negligence in a civil matter would definitely be way easier to prove though.

Originally Posted by berryberry

You may end up being correct that it's possible no one is charged. But not for the reason you state. If no one is charged, it will be because Baldwin is politically connected with the Democrat's and New Mexico is a heavy Democrat state. The Attorney general in New Mexico is far left and is one of the soft on crime types.

That said, if you read the actual New Mexico law, you would see that Baldwin is most certainly guilty of involuntary manslaughter. That is clear. The law is clear.

Man. Everything that happens in the world isn't a part of this weird Pro Wrestling style political narrative that we have going on in this country. Like that's as close to touching that as I'm willing to get with this.

[bambino]

The AG said everything is on the table. Criminal charges.

[bambino]

The Sheriff dismissed this as being an accident. It is a criminal investigation. I’ll bet someone will be charged with manslaughter.


https://t.me/JovanHuttonPulitzer/2440

[DrivesAllDay]

If anything, from what I have seen, they'll pin the blame on the Armorer since she's responsible for the weapons on set.

[berryberry]

Originally Posted by anmar85

Man. Everything that happens in the world isn't a part of this weird Pro Wrestling style political narrative that we have going on in this country. Like that's as close to touching that as I'm willing to get with this.

And yet what I posted is factual. You may not want to believe that a politically connected Democrat in a Democrat state may not be prosecuted even though the law says he is guilty - but it happens

Oh - and here is the law:

Involuntary manslaughter consists of manslaughter committed in the commission of an unlawful act not amounting to felony, or in the commission of a lawful act which might produce death in an unlawful manner or without due caution and circumspection.

"All that it is necessary to establish for involuntary manslaughter by the use of a loaded firearm is that a defendant had in his hands a gun which at some time had been loaded and that he handled it" - New Mexico Supreme Court

[berryberry]

Originally Posted by anmar85

I will say that the walk out was over a completely different safety concern. The reason people walked out was because the lodging that was booked was roughly 60 miles from set. You can imagine that having to drive 60 miles after 12 hours of manual labor could be pretty dangerous. I still think we're playing pretty loose with the law though if we try to pin criminal negligence on a single person in this case. Negligence in a civil matter would definitely be way easier to prove though.

And yet there is this:

‘Rust’ actor says filming felt ‘life-threatening,’ raised fears of Brandon Lee-style death

https://nypost.com/2021/10/26/rust-a...e-threatening/

And while we are at it - read this

There’s no denying Alec Baldwin’s role in on-set shooting tragedy

In fact, Alec Baldwin is likely to be held, at least in part, responsible.

“If you’re capable of memorizing 120 pages of dialogue, you can memorize four lines of gun safety,” special effects and firearms expert Steve Wolf tells The Post.

“If that scene required him to put the gun to his head and pull the trigger, I’m sure he would have taken a look inside the gun. Wouldn’t you?”

As a producer on “Rust,” Baldwin could be held culpable for the cost-cutting, chaos and eventual hire of a young head armorer with just one stint in said job on her résumé — because, according to Deadline, multiple other armorers turned it down over low pay and high stakes, with too many firearms to manage.

“They hired someone who was insufficiently experienced,” Wolf says. “If he’s the producer, the buck stops with him.”

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“Don’t point guns at people” is the most elemental rule on sets, Wolf says.

“Don’t point guns at anything you don’t want to put a hole in.”

Retired FBI Agent Bobby Chacon, who works as a writer and consultant in Hollywood, agrees.

If fact, Chacon goes over the four basic rules of guns on sets so often that his actors roll their eyes. He takes this as a sign to keep going, because they’ve heard it all before, they know the rules, and still they listen:

Treat EVERY weapon as if it’s loaded, even if you’re told it isn’t.

NEVER point a gun at anything you’re not willing to kill or destroy.

Never put your finger on the trigger until you are ready to kill or destroy something.

Know where your target is and what’s behind it (where possible).

Yet on “Rust,” we know seven crew members walked off set the morning Hutchins was killed — and they walked over safety concerns. During production, someone rang the alarm to the unit production manager, texting, “We’ve now had 3 accidental discharges. This is super unsafe.”

Wolf tells The Post that the Santa Fe County Sheriff’s Office has reached out to him about helping its investigation.

“Everything I find will probably point to negligence,” Wolf says. “Gross negligence, possibly criminal negligence. The armorer didn’t have the experience to command a set. You have a gun, a bullet, someone aiming it, and someone firing it. So it was inevitable if you bring together those ingredients.”

https://nypost.com/2021/10/25/no-den...ishap-tragedy/

[berryberry]

Originally Posted by anmar85

I will say that the walk out was over a completely different safety concern. The reason people walked out was because the lodging that was booked was roughly 60 miles from set. You can imagine that having to drive 60 miles after 12 hours of manual labor could be pretty dangerous. I still think we're playing pretty loose with the law though if we try to pin criminal negligence on a single person in this case. Negligence in a civil matter would definitely be way easier to prove though.

And then there is this:

Actor Explains How Alec Baldwin Failed To Follow Basic Gun Safety On Set

Actor Adam Baldwin, who has handled multiple guns in his roles onscreen, said that Alec Baldwin clearly neglected to check the chamber of his gun on the set of “Rust” before firing a live round that killed a cinematographer and injured a director.

“Why he didn’t check to see if it was cleared?” Adam asked on “The Dana Show.” “That’s, you know, to me, that’s just clear negligence. Everyone that is handling a firearm should know and is trained to check the weapon, clear the weapon, make sure that it’s empty. The barrel, the breech, the magazine, and the cylinder of a revolver in this case.”

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“It’s inexcusable that any live ammo would be mixed in with the blanks,” he said. “However, it’s inexcusable not to check and see if your weapon is loaded. … Whoever hands me a weapon, I check it.”

Adam also said that Alec should have known better since he has decades of experience filming on sets with prop guns.

“Alec Baldwin is 63 years old. He’s been doing this for 40 years or more. He’s had a gun in his hand on camera for decades and he would know that protocol had been broken when that gun was handed to him and he didn’t check it himself or whoever was handing it to him didn’t hand it to him opened so that he could see it and so that the people he was aiming at” could see it, Adam said. “It’s common practice to show the people behind the camera if you’re pointing in that direction, ‘see how empty this gun is? It’s completely empty.'”



https://thefederalist.com/2021/10/25...safety-on-set/

[bambino]

Originally Posted by berryberry

And then there is this:

Actor Explains How Alec Baldwin Failed To Follow Basic Gun Safety On Set

Actor Adam Baldwin, who has handled multiple guns in his roles onscreen, said that Alec Baldwin clearly neglected to check the chamber of his gun on the set of “Rust” before firing a live round that killed a cinematographer and injured a director.

“Why he didn’t check to see if it was cleared?” Adam asked on “The Dana Show.” “That’s, you know, to me, that’s just clear negligence. Everyone that is handling a firearm should know and is trained to check the weapon, clear the weapon, make sure that it’s empty. The barrel, the breech, the magazine, and the cylinder of a revolver in this case.”

.
.
.
“It’s inexcusable that any live ammo would be mixed in with the blanks,” he said. “However, it’s inexcusable not to check and see if your weapon is loaded. … Whoever hands me a weapon, I check it.”

Adam also said that Alec should have known better since he has decades of experience filming on sets with prop guns.

“Alec Baldwin is 63 years old. He’s been doing this for 40 years or more. He’s had a gun in his hand on camera for decades and he would know that protocol had been broken when that gun was handed to him and he didn’t check it himself or whoever was handing it to him didn’t hand it to him opened so that he could see it and so that the people he was aiming at” could see it, Adam said. “It’s common practice to show the people behind the camera if you’re pointing in that direction, ‘see how empty this gun is? It’s completely empty.'”



https://thefederalist.com/2021/10/25...safety-on-set/

Yeah, it’s in the Actors screen guilds protocol. Baldwin needed to check the gun. He should be charged with manslaughter.

[bambino]

Randy Quaid weighs in on the Baldwin shooting


https://www.redvoicemedia.com/2021/1...news-for-alec/