How are we going to pay for all this shit?

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by adav8s28

Need to do three easy things to fix the long term debt.

One per cent of the population is controlling 90% of the wealth. People who make under a $100,000 are paying roughly 28% tax on their income. The multi-millionaries and billionares are not paying 28% taxes on their incomes they are paying a lot less. Remember when Mitt Romney said he was only paying 15% tax rate on his income. Some people like Trump are not paying any taxes at all.

To clear almost 30 Trillion in rolling debt in 30 years, you need Trillion dollar surpluses. The last surplus was under Clinton for a couple of million dollars. We wont't get anywhere near a trillion dollar surplus under the current tax code without changes. Trump just proved that cutting taxes does not spur economic growth. His GDP numbers are essentially the same as Obamas. Do the following and don't get into anymore nation building wars and the USA has a chance to clear the rolling debt.

Paul Ryan had a plan but he wanted take away the health care of anyone who was not rich.

1. The tax rate percentage in the 7th tax bracket needs to go 40% at least for a while. This or create one or two additional brackets where people who make over 10 million and 100 million are paying more taxes.

2. The Corporate tax rate percentage needs to go back to 25 per cent. I agree that 35% was too high but 20% is too low.

3. Capital gains tax should go from 20% to 25% when all of the income is coming from Capital gains and there is no W2 or 1099 earnings filed for that tax year.

Adav8s28, What can I say that I haven't said here many times before. Your premise that the tax system in the USA is regressive is just wrong. We have the most progressive tax system in the developed world. Now, when you get to the top .01%, that doesn't necessarily apply. But certainly most of the multimillionaires are paying more than their fair share compared to the population as a whole. See

https://www.eccie.net/showpost.php?p...&postcount=170

Or do a search on username "Tiny" and "progressive." I'd provide you a link to the seminal OECD study on the subject, but you have to pay for the report.

As to the capital gains tax rate, the current rate including the net investment income tax is 23.8% in Texas, and 37.1% in California. If the Build Back Better (BBB) bill is passed in its current form, the maximum marginal rate on long term capital gains will go to 31.8% in Texas and 45.1% in California.

And the maximum marginal tax rate on other income currently is 40.8% in Texas, and 54.1% in California, again including the net investment income tax. With the BBB as currently written, those rates will go to 48.8% in Texas and 62.1% in California. The nonpartisan Tax Foundation notes that the AVERAGE (not Texas or California, the national average) maximum marginal tax rate in the USA, assuming BBB is passed in its current form and the TCJA tax cuts expire as scheduled in 2025, will be 57.4%, the highest in the OECD: https://taxfoundation.org/democrats-...come-tax-rate/

And as to 1% of the population controlling 90% of the wealth, if that's true, making the tax system more progressive to try to change that is a fools game, unless your goal is to make everyone poorer. Again, we already have the most progressive tax system in the developed world. The solution is to get people to save and invest instead of spending every dime they make.

[adav8s28]

Originally Posted by lustylad

Show us a link where any economist, or non-economist, described 2% GDP growth as "record-setting".

Does former President Donald Trump count as a non-economist?

"We built the worlds greatest economy before Covid and now were are doing it again". Donald Trump

How did he build the worlds greatest economy on 2% GDP growth rates. Especially considering that is the rate it was before he came into office.

Here is the link. You have been beat again, Ivy Leaguer.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-45827430

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by lustylad

The only sense in which private bond traders are still smart is in following the old adage "don't fight the Fed". Don't even try to sell bonds and push up yields to where they might actually offer real, inflation-adjusted returns to savers and investors. If you do, you'll quickly find yourself being body-slammed by that 800-pound gorilla.

I'm relying on intuition here, because I don't have your background in economics. But that makes a lot of sense. And it's scary, like your other observation that something like 57% of government debt was being purchased by the Fed.

So I guess the key word is "traders." Maybe the traders believe that if longer term bond yields start to edge up too much the Fed will start buying the bonds and force yields down again? It seems to me that buying and holding a 30 year bond to maturity is a fools game, lending money to the U.S. government for 2% interest.

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by adav8s28

Here is the link. You have been beat again, Ivy Leaguer.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-45827430

OK adav8s28, you may be the COVID King, honestly, but you beating LL in an economics argument would be like me kicking Tyson Fury's ass in a fist fight.

[lustylad]

Originally Posted by lustylad

Show us a link where any economist, or non-economist, described 2% GDP growth as "record-setting".

Originally Posted by adav8s28

Here is the link. You have been beat again, Ivy Leaguer.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-45827430

I read your link. Nowhere in it does anyone describe 2% GDP growth as setting any kind of record.

Do you think Donald Trump's penchant for hyperbole gives you license to completely make things up? You end up looking stupider than he does.

The only thing you're good at is liking your own posts.

[adav8s28]

Originally Posted by lustylad

Do you think Donald Trump's penchant for hyperbole gives you license to completely make things up? You end up looking stupider than he does.

You republicans love Donald Trump. Now you are calling him stupid?

If you can't equate greatest with record setting, then i guess we just can't have a conversation now can we.

The whole point was after Trump cut the corporate tax rate to 20% we were suppose to see 4,5 or 6% GDP growth rates. That did not happen now did it?

You never get on Waco Kid for giving himself multiple likes. He even admitted to that.

Joe Harvard you just won't admit when you lose one.

[lustylad]

Originally Posted by Tiny

...at least with respect to GDP, this is a fool's game. What's causing GDP growth to change? Well, there are changes in technology, globalization, the business cycle, what's going on in other countries, the Fed and monetary policy, demographic changes, consumer and business confidence, availability of capital, changes in productivity, Congress, etc.

I do think however the Republican tax cuts and deregulation did play a part in lower unemployment and higher real income, for reasons we've discussed ad infinitum.

Bravo, tiny!

Obviously, your problem is you think too much like an economist. Simple-minded simpletons like wtf and adav8 can only ponder simple correlations between two variables. If you try to sprinkle in a few more, their brains fog up...

Huh? You mean A didn't solely, entirely and exclusively cause 100% of B to happen? You're saying C, D, and E also contributed to B? And some of those variables influenced B in opposite ways? So now I have to figure out what the impact of A on B would have been, but for C and D's offsetting effects? Awww... go away with that complicated shit! It muddies up my narrative!

And stop babbling about things like R-squared and regression analysis. Stop talking about degrees of confidence or strengths of correlation. My mind is made up! The correlation between DNC talking points and Absolute Truth is +1!

Correlation = 100% causation, at least when I say so!

[Strokey_McDingDong]

TAX THE MIDDLE CLASS!!!

[adav8s28]

Originally Posted by Tiny

The solution is to get people to save and invest instead of spending every dime they make.

Tiny, this is more difficult for a family of 4 that makes less than $50,000. It's just not going to happen when cost of everything goes up over time but salaries remain flat or near flat. Look at all the people in Silicon Valley who have jobs but are forced to live in tents on the street. They could afford to live there at one time, but once the Facebook and others moved in the rents went up much faster than incomes.

[adav8s28]

Originally Posted by Strokey_McDingDong

TAX THE MIDDLE CLASS!!!

The middle class is already paying 28% of their income in taxes. Just go look at any tax table over the last 20 years.

[lustylad]

Originally Posted by adav8s28

You republicans love Donald Trump. Now you are calling him stupid?

Fyi - I'm not a Republican. When I vote for one, it's usually because dim-retards like you are saying and doing incredibly stupid things. And yes, Trump says stupid things too. Most of the time, he's trolling and goading people like you into saying something stupider. You never fail him either.

[adav8s28]

Originally Posted by lustylad

Fyi - I'm not a Republican. When I vote for one, ..........

When Trump made his comment about he built the worlds greatest economy and we are going to do it again, he was not trying to be funny he was serious.

You can't win them all Joe Harvard. Nice try at trying to put a little distance between yourself and Trump's failed policies.

Your friends at Fox was all over Obama for doing 2% gdp growth but when Trump did the same thing it's the greatest thing since sliced bread.

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by lustylad

Bravo, tiny!

Obviously, your problem is you think too much like an economist. Simple-minded simpletons like wtf and adav8 can only ponder simple correlations between two variables. If you try to sprinkle in a few more, their brains fog up...

Huh? You mean A didn't solely, entirely and exclusively cause 100% of B to happen? You're saying C, D, and E also contributed to B? And some of those variables influenced B in opposite ways? So now I have to figure out what the impact of A on B would have been, but for C and D's offsetting effects? Awww... go away with that complicated shit! It muddies up my narrative!

And stop babbling about things like R-squared and regression analysis. Stop talking about degrees of confidence or strengths of correlation. My mind is made up! The correlation between DNC talking points and Absolute Truth is +1!

Correlation = 100% causation, at least when I say so!

LOL, especially at this,

"My mind is made up! The correlation between DNC talking points and Absolute Truth is +1!"

WTF and adav8s28 are smart people. I think adav8s28's problem is that he listens too much to left-of-center media and doesn't check out whether what they're saying is factual. WTF just likes to argue. The way he keeps trying to argue with you about GDP growth under Obama vs. Trump cracks me up. I think he knows better but is like a dog that got hold of a rope and won't let go.

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by adav8s28

Tiny, this is more difficult for a family of 4 that makes less than $50,000. It's just not going to happen when cost of everything goes up over time but salaries remain flat or near flat. Look at all the people in Silicon Valley who have jobs but are forced to live in tents on the street. They could afford to live there at one time, but once the Facebook and others moved in the rents went up much faster than incomes.

If a family of 4 is making less than $50,000 a year I think we're looking at the wrong issue, when we compare its net worth to the top 1% or 10% or whatever. We should be thinking about how to improve the educational system, in ways that will not only provide a better education in elementary school, but also directly improve how people do economically later in life. For many people that will mean an education that leads to jobs as electricians, plumbers, truck drivers and the like, instead of getting psychology degrees. More two parent families would help. And the $3,000 payment or credit per child in the BBB bill, if provided to families of 4 or more making less than $50,000 might not be a bad idea. Manchin's problem with that program is giving the credit to people who are relatively well off, and he's got a very good point.

[adav8s28]

Originally Posted by Tiny

WTF and adav8s28 are smart people.

Thanks Tiny. You're a good guy and a good poster.