19 Shot and Killed at El Paso Mall.. Killer is from Allen

[bill sins]

Texas being a legal carry state where the hell were the pistol packers?

[melannie_star]

people miss all the obvious signs..

[TheWanderer]

Originally Posted by mdub

What gun control policies do any of you propose or advocate that would have prevented any of the recent mass shootings?

There is nothing anyone can do to reverse the past. All we can do is move forward towards a safer future. It's already in motion to happen again. There are nuts out there right now working up their nerve and planning.
I'm an advocate of the 2nd Amendment and I own guns. It needs to become a very strict process going forward. Strict Universal background checks and the rights to buy or own an AR-15 or any semiautomatic rifle should be a process earned, not given to a first time 21 year old gun-buyer. In the old days in the state I grew up in, you had to have a permit approved by the sheriff and you had to have 2 people (non-felons) willing to sign for you to even purchase a pistol permit to buy a handgun. Nationwide, over the last 10-20 years, we have relaxed every law related to gun purchases. Has this been a good thing? Illegally owning guns needs to become a much more serious crime and task forces should be formed to investigate those that illegally own guns. Either way, what we have now is not working and thanks to the NRA, there are more guns floating around than at ANY time in US history. These weekly gun shows, that needs to end. How ridiculous is that anyway? You would think we are at war domestically. These gun nuts - who needs to own 10-20 guns? What are you, in charge of the armory?
Innocent people...children are being slaughtered. We are at war with ourselves. Time to disarm a little. Tone it the fuck down.

[Chung Tran]

Originally Posted by darkwader

the boards' rightwing nutters are noticeably quiet

they are very loud in the Political Forum!

Originally Posted by bill sins

Texas being a legal carry state where the hell were the pistol packers?

that's the thing.. peoples' instinct is to run, duck, flee.. those with guns are caught off guard, and can't act timely. which is why conceal/carry is not that effective.

Originally Posted by melannie_star

people miss all the obvious signs..

yes.. well Society does, in that we have no real mechanism to report crazy folks.. "see something, say something".. what is that? I'm going to call up LE, and they will act on my "intelligence".. try again. too much work to weed out the real crazies from the "I was acting batshit crazy for a few moments today, I'm normally not so bad" crazies.

[HotMercury]

Best thing you can do is reduce the amount of gun related violence. And before folks bring up, "What about Chicago? They got one of the strictest gun laws in America, but have the most homicides!"


There is a great article back in 2017 that argue against that claim. Cook county has an assault weapons ban, but, Chicago as a whole didn't have strict gun laws to begin with. In 2008, they tried to pass a handgun restriction bill, but it was overturned by the Supreme Court. A similar bill was re-in introduced again, but once more was shot down in 2010 by the courts.


The article is then cited to say that Chicago had a gun registry in place since 1968, but that was ended in 2013 when they passed a bill to allow concealed carry.


But where the story really gets interesting is when they bring up guns getting funneled in from other states like Indiana for example.


Anyways, the article was published by PBS if y'all are interested in the read. However, the case I'm trying to make is, this is a National problem. We need sweeping legislation to make it harder to obtain fire arms. Plus reduce the amounts that currently exists.


It's a tall task, but twiddling our fingers and not doing shit should not be the alternative.

[Aoi]

Originally Posted by darkwader

the boards' rightwing nutters are noticeably quiet

Well, considering one of the killers was a registered Democrat..


Funny, I don't see many leftwingers speak out illegal immigration, transgenderism or climate change.


See what I did there? I just played a stupid political talking point like you did.

[VeryClean]

Perhaps the best solution is to give these white nationalists what they want. Give them Montana or Idaho or some other state and let them turn it into a whites only country. That's what these American and Canadian white nationalists want. They truly believe that white people are going to die off. That the white race is undergoing extinction. This is despite the fact that there are over 1.2 billion white people in the world and over 200 million white people in the USA.

They believe that a whites only country will be a perfect utopia. They believe that a whites only country will have zero crime and zero problems of any kind. They believe that a white person is incapable of harming or robbing or killing another white person. All the many wars in medieval Europe be damned! This El Paso shooter who murdered over 22 people and injured another 20 is a white nationalist who believes all that. Look up Dylan Roof and what he did in June 2015. There have been more and more white nationalists going on mass shooting sprees where they specifically target nonwhites. I see these kinds of racially motivated hateful shooting sprees only increasing with time.

No I don't seriously believe that we should cede a state over to them. However, we keep discussing gun violence and gun control but we also need to take white nationalism/white supremacy much more seriously. White nationalism/white supremacy is a dangerous radical ideology just like radical Islam. Both ideologies breed dangerous brainwashed terrorists. Violent white nationalists like this El Paso shooter think of themselves as martyrs for the "glorious superior white race". They truly believe that they're giving their lives for a noble cause and that they will end up in heaven afterwards. Let's not dismiss them as crazies but take them seriously. Infiltrate their groups and take them down. More than we're doing now. Let's prevent another El Paso massacre.

[Aoi]

Originally Posted by HotMercury

But where the story really gets interesting is when they bring up guns getting funneled in from other states like Indiana for example.

So, Chicago gun crimes are committed by guns funneled from other states that have less strict gun laws, but said states have far fewer gun related deaths than Chicago. Hmm.

Anyways, the article was published by PBS if y'all are interested in the read. However, the case I'm trying to make is, this is a National problem. We need sweeping legislation to make it harder to obtain fire arms. Plus reduce the amounts that currently exists.


It's a tall task, but twiddling our fingers and not doing shit should not be the alternative.

The Second Amendment laughs at you.


But seriously, barring the fact that PBS is left leaning, your source is dubious at best. And the fact that you got the Chicago thing wrong proves how little you know about guns.


Also, this isn't a gun problem. This is a SOCIETAL problem. Parents are doing a shit job at raising children for one thing. And if you have the media, in all of its forms, stoke division, hatred, identity politics, and YES, fake news, what in the flying fuck do you think is going to happen? Not to mention, violence which is far more prevalent in TV shows now.

Perhaps the best solution is to give these white nationalists what they want. Give them Montana or Idaho or some other state and let them turn it into a whites only country. That's what these American and Canadian white nationalists want. They truly believe that white people are going to die off. That the white race is undergoing extinction. This is despite the fact that there are over 1.2 billion white people in the world and over 200 million white people in the USA.

They believe that a whites only country will be a perfect utopia. They believe that a whites only country will have zero crime and zero problems of any kind. They believe that a white person is incapable of harming or robbing or killing another white person. All the many wars in medieval Europe be damned! This El Paso shooter who murdered over 22 people and injured another 20 is a white nationalist who believes all that. Look up Dylan Roof and what he did in June 2015. There have been more and more white nationalists going on mass shooting sprees where they specifically target nonwhites. I see these kinds of racially motivated hateful shooting sprees only increasing with time.

No I don't seriously believe that we should cede a state over to them. However, we keep discussing gun violence and gun control but we also need to take white nationalism/white supremacy much more seriously. White nationalism/white supremacy is a dangerous radical ideology just like radical Islam. Both ideologies breed dangerous brainwashed terrorists. Violent white nationalists like this El Paso shooter think of themselves as martyrs for the "glorious superior white race". They truly believe that they're giving their lives for a noble cause and that they will end up in heaven afterwards. Let's not dismiss them as crazies but take them seriously. Infiltrate their groups and take them down. More than we're doing now. Let's prevent another El Paso massacre.

The thing with white nationalism, aside from it being a toxic ideology, is that the number of white nationalists is INSANELY low compared to, say, radical Islam. However, it's the MEDIA that continues to make this small group of dumbass losers appear much bigger than they actually are. White nationalists like to pretend they've got numbers, but in reality ,they're either virgin white boys who live on YouTube or hillbilly shits who fuck their own cousins.

[Aoi]

Originally Posted by TheWanderer

Today Trump called for cultural changes, including stopping the “glorification of violence in our society” in video games and elsewhere.
Hours earlier, on Twitter, he called for “strong background checks” and suggested pairing gun legislation with new immigration laws, a top priority of his that he has failed to move through Congress. Trump did not elaborate on his call for stronger background checks during his televised remarks.
Trump made a similar call to strengthen background checks after a mass shooting last year at a Florida school, and has since threatened to veto bills passed by House Democrats seeking to do so.

In other words, he'll do nothing significant except make speeches about it.

Good, thankfully Trump just made a stupid speech and won’t do anything. People crying about laws have no clue how any of these things could have been prevented. All they do is morally grand stand.

You wanna know how to prevent things like this from happening?

Raise your children to not be pieces of shit

[VeryClean]

Originally Posted by Aoi

The thing with white nationalism, aside from it being a toxic ideology, is that the number of white nationalists is INSANELY low compared to, say, radical Islam. However, it's the MEDIA that continues to make this small group of dumbass losers appear much bigger than they actually are. White nationalists like to pretend they've got numbers, but in reality ,they're either virgin white boys who live on YouTube or hillbilly shits who fuck their own cousins.

I agree with you to an extent. White nationalists are just a small percentage of the American population for now. I also agree that the media has a tendency of blowing things out of proportion so they receive more views and more money.

However, I wouldn't dismiss white nationalism as such a weak impotent ideology the way you're doing. Keep in mind that the alt-right, with it's strong leanings towards white nationalism/white supremacy, have tens of thousands of supporters across the USA...and their number of supporters are increasing fast. Furthermore, the inmates in American prisons are divided among racial lines. American prison gangs like the Aryan Brotherhood and it's many offshoots have many thousands of members, most of them white nationalists/white supremacists.

American white nationalists have a very effective propaganda & recruiting tool that they didn't have in the past...social media and the internet. They're extremely active on the internet with many websites, youtube videos, social media accounts etc. They've recruited and radicalized more white Americans in the past 15 years than they have in the 30 years before that.

In the end, I agree with you that white nationalists are never going to achieve their goal. Their goal is to kill all the nonwhites in the USA and turn the USA into a whites only country. That's never going to happen. However that doesn't mean that they're not a serious threat to national security. They have the potential to kill a lot of innocent people. This El Paso shooter is just one white nationalist and yet he killed and injured so many innocent people.

[darkwader]

Originally Posted by TheWanderer

Today Trump called for cultural changes, including stopping the “glorification of violence in our society” in video games and elsewhere.
Hours earlier, on Twitter, he called for “strong background checks” and suggested pairing gun legislation with new immigration laws, a top priority of his that he has failed to move through Congress. Trump did not elaborate on his call for stronger background checks during his televised remarks.
Trump made a similar call to strengthen background checks after a mass shooting last year at a Florida school, and has since threatened to veto bills passed by House Democrats seeking to do so.

In other words, he'll do nothing significant except make speeches about it.

in other words same as nearly every other president we've had, emotional speeches not withstanding...

only difference is the particularly odious asshole we currently have will stoke white fear and racial animus even more after waiting for a couple of days...

[darkwader]

Originally Posted by Aoi

The thing with white nationalism, aside from it being a toxic ideology, is that the number of white nationalists is INSANELY low compared to, say, radical Islam. However, it's the MEDIA that continues to make this small group of dumbass losers appear much bigger than they actually are. White nationalists like to pretend they've got numbers, but in reality ,they're either virgin white boys who live on YouTube or hillbilly shits who fuck their own cousins.

what about asian americans suffering from stockholm syndrome that willingly push white supremacy arguments...surely there are a few of those?

[cavmen]

I going to add some fuel to the fire.
I am a gun owner but I do not have any form of assault rifles. If I buy AR, it is not for shooting range or hunting (animals). No one is taking my guns away and I am not going to give them up for anyone. If these stupid fuckers keep selling AR and keep buying AR, I need to go get one and it won’t be for range or hunting. I know I can’t fight someone with AR with any of my guns.
So now why does anyone need AR?


Give White nationalists FL (Key West), HI or CA. Paradise states with natural disasters and build the WALL.
or Give them TX. NOT !
or give/send them to Tijuana.

[HotMercury]

Originally Posted by Aoi

So, Chicago gun crimes are committed by guns funneled from other states that have less strict gun laws, but said states have far fewer gun related deaths than Chicago. Hmm.
.

Those said states have way lower populous than compared to Illinois's don't you think? One would also argue that there is a highly more concentrated gang activities in the bigger cities, so yeah, food for thought.


Also, let's be real though, you're the type of person who'll say anything is left-leaning if it doesn't allign with your idealogy, even if the sources were cited and it was legitimate information being brought up. Like for example, the Supreme Court rulings and how it counters that type of argument in a nutshell.



But boy oh boy, you'll still say something that's Government funded like PBS is biased.



Please, enlighten me with your "real" sources, where do you get your information from?

[LargeBreastFan]

Originally Posted by bill sins

Texas being a legal carry state where the hell were the pistol packers?

A noted Facebook post.

"DEAR ARMCHAIR GUNFIGHTERS...

you have total chaos with people running everywhere (like the El Paso Walmart) and a guy firing indiscriminately...

and your solution is to add to the bullets flying around...

you might want to rethink that."