Arizona Supreme Court abortion ban

[VitaMan]

Originally Posted by Yssup Rider

No wonder these threads are all derailed and hijacked.

Yes, it is ironic posts like this below appear in a thread about the Arizona Supreme Court and the Republican push to create laws that are based on their beliefs:


"Oh Democrats do the same thing. They tell people what to do. In fact they do it more than Republicans."




The tone of the right wing supporters on this thread still show they want to enact laws that follow their beliefs, and enforce them on others that do not have the same beliefs.

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by Levianon17

Can you be charged with murder for killing a Frog?

Please note that I said "during the first trimester." That means during the first 12 weeks. Why is aborting an embryo or fetus during the first 12 weeks "murder"? I doubt that's in the Bible or the Koran or any other holy books. It's just something that somebody made up. In the early weeks an embryo is a mass of cells. At the 12th week a fetus is the size of a plum. Most researchers believe a fetus doesn't start to feel pain until somewhere between the 12th and the 24th weeks.

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by Tiny

One thing that puzzles me is that many people who are strongly pro life (for example, no exception for rape or incest) also are in favor of the death penalty.

Originally Posted by Jackie S

What is puzzling about someone wanting to protect the most innocent and punish the most vile?

I can't use the analogy I'd like because of forum rules, so here's second best. Allowing a woman who was raped to get an abortion IS protecting the innocent.

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by Salty Again

And don't you lads in the thread here understand
what's going on? ... It's NOT about banning Abortion.
It's about BOTH Repubs and Dems there over in Arizona
coming to a reasonable compromise on WHAT the
state Law should be.

... Perhaps a ban on Abortion after 15 weeks.
Perhaps exceptions for rape/incest or for the
direct health of the mother.

... Time for both partys there to surely sit down
and negotiate the issue.

That makes sense Salty. Majorities in most states favor abortion during the first 12 to 15 weeks, and exceptions for rape/incest and the direct health of the mothers. I believe Trump would vote for that if he were a state legislator. While I do buy into the argument that reproductive freedom is a basic right early in the pregnancy, referendums at the state level make sense too. I'd rather not see referendums on abortion held at the same time as elections though, because it's bad for Republican candidates.

[Levianon17]

Originally Posted by Tiny

Please note that I said "during the first trimester." That means during the first 12 weeks. Why is aborting an embryo or fetus during the first 12 weeks "murder"? I doubt that's in the Bible or the Koran or any other holy books. It's just something that somebody made up. In the early weeks an embryo is a mass of cells. At the 12th week a fetus is the size of a plum. Most researchers believe a fetus doesn't start to feel pain until somewhere between the 12th and the 24th weeks.

One reason you may not find anything specifically about abortion in the Bible is because many cultures practiced actual child sacrifice. During these modern times Abortion is used in place of that. Although Abortion is politicized in modern culture as some sort of right. Satanic groups incorporate it in their beliefs as an offering to Satan. Now I am not for Abortion because of what it truly represents but for individual States to make it legal well that's on them and I have no control over what states propose. Furthermore if you think that many abortions aren't performed past a designated time frame I've got news for ya they are, more than you might think.

[yeahsurewhatev]

Originally Posted by Levianon17

One reason you may not find anything specifically about abortion in the Bible is because many cultures practiced actual child sacrifice. During these modern times Abortion is used in place of that. Although Abortion is politicized in modern culture as some sort of right. Satanic groups incorporate it in their beliefs as an offering to Satan. Now I am not for Abortion because of what it truly represents but for individual States to make it legal well that's on them and I have no control over what states propose. Furthermore if you think that many abortions aren't performed past a designated time frame I've got news for ya they are, more than you might think.

OMG, please keep going. Just when I can’t imagine a more inane comment, you come up with one. I trust you’re going to reveal your sources as your final flourish.

[winn dixie]

Originally Posted by Levianon17

One reason you may not find anything specifically about abortion in the Bible is because many cultures practiced actual child sacrifice. During these modern times Abortion is used in place of that. Although Abortion is politicized in modern culture as some sort of right. Satanic groups incorporate it in their beliefs as an offering to Satan. .

What tha? I have no words!

[reddog1951]

"Stage of development isn't a factor."
"What's the difference the results are the same."

Do those here understand that the birth control pill actually works by preventing the implantation of a fertilized egg to the uterus?

So, if one argues against the termination of an early pregnancy, where do you draw the line? A fertilized egg has the POTENTIAL to become a baby...seems to me that if one is opposed to early gestation abortion, they logically must oppose the use of birth control pills as well.

Bear in mind the nature of this site. Any "encounter" could lead to unintentional pregnancy either by failure of lack of "protection". I doubt either participant in procreation would welcome a forced end result.

[VitaMan]

Maybe the posters could get back and discuss the Arizona Supreme Court ruling, and how this will affect the presidential election.


Instead of their individual semantics, and expressing their beliefs.

[Levianon17]

Originally Posted by VitaMan

Maybe the posters could get back and discuss the Arizona Supreme Court ruling, and how this will affect the presidential election.


Instead of their individual semantics, and expressing their beliefs.

It doesn't matter how it affects it. You're going to get an idiot for a President regardless.

[Levianon17]

Originally Posted by reddog1951

"Stage of development isn't a factor."
"What's the difference the results are the same."

Do those here understand that the birth control pill actually works by preventing the implantation of a fertilized egg to the uterus?

So, if one argues against the termination of an early pregnancy, where do you draw the line? A fertilized egg has the POTENTIAL to become a baby...seems to me that if one is opposed to early gestation abortion, they logically must oppose the use of birth control pills as well.

Bear in mind the nature of this site. Any "encounter" could lead to unintentional pregnancy either by failure of lack of "protection". I doubt either participant in procreation would welcome a forced end result.

Birth Control Pills are a different subject.

[reddog1951]

Care to elaborate how BCPills are a different subject?

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by VitaMan

Maybe the posters could get back and discuss the Arizona Supreme Court ruling, and how this will affect the presidential election.

Instead of their individual semantics, and expressing their beliefs.

I disagree. If you want to understand why some Republicans support the Arizona Supreme Court ruling, even though it will cost votes, you need to understand their underlying beliefs about abortion. That's what we've been discussing on the third page of your thread.

Earlier on, you said,

Originally Posted by VitaMan

The point is, why can't Republicans leave other people alone that don't share their beliefs ? They go after others with their laws, using their religious zealots as a guiding light.

If that's what this thread is supposed to be about, you're not going to get much participation from the other side. You might as well just watch MSNBC.

As to Republican-leaning voters, you have two, Levianon and Jackie, who would probably support the state Supreme Court ruling and prefer that Arizona not legalize abortion. You have two, Winn Dixie and me, who are very disappointed in the decision. And Salty's straddling the fence.

It's interesting that neither Jackie or Levianon has challenged my assertion that this is going to cost Republicans votes. Apparently they're firm in their moral convictions, even though they may realize it will cost at the polls. Even though it may throw the presidency and control of the Senate and House to Democrats.

[VitaMan]

Considering this is a National forum, and you mention 5 people, and it is always the same 5 that participate, maybe this is not worth it any longer.


5 out of 335 million.

[Levianon17]

Originally Posted by Tiny

Please note that I said "during the first trimester." That means during the first 12 weeks. Why is aborting an embryo or fetus during the first 12 weeks "murder"? I doubt that's in the Bible or the Koran or any other holy books. It's just something that somebody made up. In the early weeks an embryo is a mass of cells. At the 12th week a fetus is the size of a plum. Most researchers believe a fetus doesn't start to feel pain until somewhere between the 12th and the 24th weeks.

At twelve weeks the fetus is about 2 inches long and roughly 45 to 49 ounces in weight. There is also a Heart beat, so yeah there would be a pain response when something pokes them. You can visualize an Abortion how ever you like but the reality is an Abortion Doctor when performing an Abortion is pulling parts of the fetus and placing them on a stainless steel tray. It's also quite plain to see even at twelve weeks that you have an arm or a leg ect. on the tray.