Is College Still Worth It?

[drluv1]

Originally Posted by jackfengshui

My previous post about big-time college sports: http://www.eccie.net/showthread.php?t=709568

It's kind of the same mindset that says Buffalo is "major league" because we have the Bills and sabres and that's supposed to attract people and business, while for my adult life, the economy in Rochester has generally been better. The thing I liked about the NYS university system was that it wasn't about sports. I don't think the upgrade of UB to division 1 athletics has helped recruit many more students and the fact that the bars are open in erie county till 4am probably is a bigger draw to prospective students than the athletics program.

[GP]

“The whole educational and professional training system is a very elaborate filter, which just weeds out people who are too independent, and who think for themselves, and who don't know how to be submissive, and so on -- because they're dysfunctional to the institutions.”
― Noam Chomsky

“The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum....”
― Noam Chomsky, The Common Good

“Education is a system of imposed ignorance.”
― Noam Chomsky, Manufacturing Consent: The Political Economy of the Mass Media

"Students who acquire large debts putting themselves through school are unlikely to think about changing society, Chomsky suggested. “When you trap people in a system of debt . they can’t afford the time to think.” Tuition fee increases are a “disciplinary technique,” and, by the time students graduate, they are not only loaded with debt, but have also internalized the “disciplinarian culture.” This makes them efficient components of the consumer economy."
Noam Chomsky

“Mass education was designed to turn independent farmers into docile, passive tools of production. That was its primary purpose. And don’t think people didn’t know it. They knew it and they fought against it. There was a lot of resistance to mass education for exactly that reason. It was also understood by the elites. Emerson once said something about how we’re educating them to keep them from our throats. If you don’t educate them, what we call “education,” they’re going to take control — “they” being what Alexander Hamilton called the “great beast,” namely the people. The anti-democratic thrust of opinion in what are called democratic societies is really ferocious. And for good reason. Because the freer the society gets, the more dangerous the great beast becomes and the more you have to be careful to cage it somehow.”

• Source: Class Warfare, 1995

“Because they don’t teach the truth about the world, schools have to rely on beating students over the head with propaganda about democracy. If schools were, in reality, democratic, there would be no need to bombard students with platitudes about democracy. They would simply act and behave democratically, and we know this does not happen. The more there is a need to talk about the ideals of democracy, the less democratic the system usually is.”

• Source: Chomsky on Miseducation, 1999

[jackfengshui]

Originally Posted by pmiddlebrook1225

As to the original topic of whether an education is worth it I'd say it depends on the degree. Mine was not worth it because I don't use any of the degrees in my work.

Some people manage to pursue careers related to their degrees. Some don't. But even those who do will likely change careers several times in their lifetime. College provided you with the environment to mature, forge connections and acquire "soft" skills, which will serve you well later. Reading between the lines, you are not that comfortable practicing science anyway. Quite a few CEO's and entrepreneurs have degrees in the arts and sciences.

[montana1958]

Education is a necessity for so many careers like Doctors, Lawyers, CPA's, engineers etc................ But the majority of students today may actually in the long run be better off not going to college and having a debt load of 50, 100 or 150 thousand dollars or even more. When I went to school I took out loans and had a payment of 40 dollars a month for 5 years and was about 1/10 th of my 4 year tuition total. I couldn't wait for that debt to be paid off. Back then tuition was affordable to so many but today it is a real struggle.

If you look at the numbers on that chart of employees working after the recession started, you will see non college educated employees who are older and never went to college leaving the work force or retiring leaving more college educated employees working. It will continue moving in that direction misleading the public on the importance of a college degree.

A wise friend told me once to always follow the money. Whether it be politics, business or in this case education. It's always about money and never trust information reported blindly without knowing why something gets reported a certain way.

[Autumn Bolan]

To answer the original question, No. Not from what I can see, unless you are going into a specialized field (medical, law, ect...) Liberal Arts is wasting your parents money.

[JONBALLS]

Paladino for the people

[montana1958]

Originally Posted by JONBALLS

Paladino for the people

Can you imagine him on the Buffalo school board?

[JONBALLS]

you all did a great thing up there

this should be fun..hehe

what could go wrong?

[richguy2851]

The American dream has been selling a bill-of-goods to many that can't or shouldn't partake. The first is, everyone can and should go to college. Having worked in education, I have seen many bright youngsters pushed toward the "college track" who, using one example, are language deficient and struggle to make grades in a very language-based educational system. I have spoken to many "experts" who agree that we should be entertaining the thought of a trade school track starting in middle school. Who among us hasn't thought that being a quality plumber or carpenter would be a great means of employment. They sure get paid fairly well and, if they are in business for themselves, aren't a slave to schedules for vacations. Many of our students hate school by the time they are "allowed" to pursue vocational training during the late HS years; they have possibly dropped out by then, too. The second big lie is, everyone should own a home. Fine, IF you can afford it. I believe these are the same people that suggest that everyone on a team, regardless of how that team does, should receive a trophy. A trophy for everyone on a last place team. For what? Showing up. Now that's a great message. We will reward you for poor performance. Yikes. And I'm a liberal!

[richguy2851]

By the way, not to be too much of a hypocrite, I did take advantage of the educational system and am very happy I did. Just saying it's not for everyone, but if you do pursue it, buckle down and work hard. It can pay off.

[drluv1]

Originally Posted by GP

“The whole educational and professional training system is a very elaborate filter, which just weeds out people who are too independent, and who think for themselves, and who don't know how to be submissive, and so on -- because they're dysfunctional to the institutions.”
― Noam Chomsky

“The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum....”
― Noam Chomsky, The Common Good

“Education is a system of imposed ignorance.”
― Noam Chomsky, Manufacturing Consent: The Political Economy of the Mass Media

"Students who acquire large debts putting themselves through school are unlikely to think about changing society, Chomsky suggested. “When you trap people in a system of debt . they can’t afford the time to think.” Tuition fee increases are a “disciplinary technique,” and, by the time students graduate, they are not only loaded with debt, but have also internalized the “disciplinarian culture.” This makes them efficient components of the consumer economy."
Noam Chomsky

“Mass education was designed to turn independent farmers into docile, passive tools of production. That was its primary purpose. And don’t think people didn’t know it. They knew it and they fought against it. There was a lot of resistance to mass education for exactly that reason. It was also understood by the elites. Emerson once said something about how we’re educating them to keep them from our throats. If you don’t educate them, what we call “education,” they’re going to take control — “they” being what Alexander Hamilton called the “great beast,” namely the people. The anti-democratic thrust of opinion in what are called democratic societies is really ferocious. And for good reason. Because the freer the society gets, the more dangerous the great beast becomes and the more you have to be careful to cage it somehow.”

• Source: Class Warfare, 1995

“Because they don’t teach the truth about the world, schools have to rely on beating students over the head with propaganda about democracy. If schools were, in reality, democratic, there would be no need to bombard students with platitudes about democracy. They would simply act and behave democratically, and we know this does not happen. The more there is a need to talk about the ideals of democracy, the less democratic the system usually is.”

• Source: Chomsky on Miseducation, 1999

Is chomsky one of those " whiny ass,liberal, tree hugging professors who will try to brainwash you" as you stated in an earlier post?

[drluv1]

Originally Posted by richguy2851

The American dream has been selling a bill-of-goods to many that can't or shouldn't partake. The first is, everyone can and should go to college. Having worked in education, I have seen many bright youngsters pushed toward the "college track" who, using one example, are language deficient and struggle to make grades in a very language-based educational system. I have spoken to many "experts" who agree that we should be entertaining the thought of a trade school track starting in middle school. Who among us hasn't thought that being a quality plumber or carpenter would be a great means of employment. They sure get paid fairly well and, if they are in business for themselves, aren't a slave to schedules for vacations. Many of our students hate school by the time they are "allowed" to pursue vocational training during the late HS years; they have possibly dropped out by then, too. The second big lie is, everyone should own a home. Fine, IF you can afford it. I believe these are the same people that suggest that everyone on a team, regardless of how that team does, should receive a trophy. A trophy for everyone on a last place team. For what? Showing up. Now that's a great message. We will reward you for poor performance. Yikes. And I'm a liberal!

I'm very much in agreement that kids should be tracked into trades or vocations as well. We waste too much time and money by trying to teach kids what they're not interested in learning and it only slows those truly interested down. Late bloomers and those that find value in education later in life can find plenty of avenues to learn and at least they'll have something to fall back on.

[jackfengshui]

The blue-collar middle class that Henry Ford created is vanishing. We are still manufacturing plenty of goods, but our factories are so efficient and automated that they do not need to employ a lot of people. The world economy is knowledge-based. What should our kids do after high school?

[GP]

Originally Posted by drluv1

Is chomsky one of those " whiny ass,liberal, tree hugging professors who will try to brainwash you" as you stated in an earlier post?

I have read much about him and I find him to be a genius.

[jackfengshui]

Originally Posted by GP

THE BEST argument against a college education is not going so you don't have to listen to those whiny ass, liberal, tree hugging, unrealistic professors who will try and brainwash you.

Norm Chomsky is the poster child of liberal, tree-hugging professors, and yet:

Originally Posted by GP

I find him to be a genius.