Prisoners with perks?

[London Rayne]

I am also very disturbed about the health care stats concerning prisoners. If they are not on death row, is it not in our best interest to provider quality heath care to them? In a few years I will be one of those who makes the decisions on how certain health care facilities are operated, and I would like to know it will be "First do no Harm," before "Get that money!"

I am not saying these people deserve better treatment than those who have not been convicted of a crime, but I am saying if there is going to be any reform it has to start inside the walls. Being well is a huge part of that. If you are sick, I doubt you care about much else.

[Sensia]

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

TTH and Guilty, we agree on the need for prison reform. It's insane. And Guilty, God bless your son for his service to our country.

Thank you COG.. I am very proud of both my kiddos. My son is very dedicated and his is a life long commitment to the military. By the way he loves it.

[I B Hankering]

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

TTH and Guilty, we agree on the need for prison reform. It's insane.

No doubt some reform is always needed, but what truly needs to be reformed are the laws that are putting them there.

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

And Guilty, God bless your son for his service to our country.

+1

[Sensia]

Originally Posted by London Rayne

I am also very disturbed about the health care stats concerning prisoners. If they are not on death row, is it not in our best interest to provider quality heath care to them? In a few years I will be one of those who makes the decisions on how certain health care facilities are operated, and I would like to know it will be "First do no Harm," before "Get that money!"

I am not saying these people deserve better treatment than those who have not been convicted of a crime, but I am saying if there is going to be any reform it has to start inside the walls. Being well is a huge part of that. If you are sick, I doubt you care about much else.

I watched a live docu-series on cable on convicted felons in prison, and they showed one prisoner who obviously was not mentally well, and depressed, and also very aggressive, who would repeatedly injure himself in his cell. He stuck something up his penis (can't remember what it was) it got infected and they finally took him for the umpteenth time to the hospital. I was a bit shocked by the doctors reaction toward him. It is not the doctors place to judge people and it certainly is most unethical to withhold treatment or medications from anyone when they are in a hospital for injuries or sickness; this doctor said on live camera he wasn't going to give the guy pain medication and only give him antibiotics via IV before they had to take him to surgery, he said "it will make him think twice about doing this again". The doctor displayed frustration at having to deal with this guy again in the ER. I sat there stunned because first off the doctor does not know what is going on with this man. This guy was in a lot of pain, and everyone was treating him like shit. The mentality from everyone was your deserving of maltreatment because your a convicted felon in prison. I am sorry but in my book irregardless of his crimes he deserves the same medical treatment as anyone else. Isn't that against the Hippocratic oath?

Where do we draw the line? Do we want to be just like the very people we put in prison? Be hateful, mean, and harm them just the way they harmed someone else? How does any of this help anyone? Other than make someone feel good in the moment that they caused that person pain and got even? I just feel as a society we should be better than that.

It is just like the abuse case of the middle aged Texas woman who was put outside in 100+ temps with no shade, and not given water as punishment and she died from heat exhaustion. I remember reading she was begging for water and denied. It made the news, and it was horrible. But nothing really drastic was done other than some suspensions of the guards and slap on the wrists of those involved.

The fact of the matter is.. none of this deters crime. Those that go in prisons for the most part come out prisons far worse.

If it's all about make them suffer as much as we can for their crimes.. then we better be able to handle the consequences of that when some of those people get out of prison. They will be far more twisted and hardened and destined to do far worse things because we allowed an environment of pain and suffering to continue, instead of real rehabilitation with the future prospect that they come out of prison changed for the better not for the worse.

By the way you can just google "2011 prisons inmates denied proper medical treatment US" and you will come up with some pretty shocking stuff concerning prisons and medical care and neglect for prisoners. Texas and Arizona are right on top of the list of the worst for caring for and treating prison inmates who have serious medical conditions.

[London Rayne]

This is my problem....the doctors are still held to the standard they took an oath for. If the guy was doing said things, he was clearly mentally ill or wanting to give off the impression that he was to get out of the cell. Either way, if he was not on death row, he should get the same standard of care anyone else would get. How can you rehabilitate someone you turned into an animal? I don't think people much give a rat's azz what happens to these people. We are talking petty crimes that some of them did not even commit!

If they are not going to invest in the important things like health care, therapy, and wellness programs, stop taking the tax dollars to invest in stupid crap they could do without! Either they want to reform them 100 percent, or they don't..make up your fkin mind already!

For Pete's sake, after they mess them up even more...don't let em back out to go kill someone!

[WTF]

Originally Posted by I B Hankering

No doubt some reform is always needed, but what truly needs to be reformed are the laws that are putting them there.

Hot damn , we agree , we agree, thank God almighty we agree!

[Sensia]

Originally Posted by London Rayne

This is my problem....the doctors are still held to the standard they took an oath for. If the guy was doing said things, he was clearly mentally ill or wanting to give off the impression that he was to get out of the cell. Either way, if he was not on death row, he should get the same standard of care anyone else would get. How can you rehabilitate someone you turned into an animal? I don't think people much give a rat's azz what happens to these people. We are talking petty crimes that some of them did not even commit!

If they are not going to invest in the important things like health care, therapy, and wellness programs, stop taking the tax dollars to invest in stupid crap they could do without! Either they want to reform them 100 percent, or they don't..make up your fkin mind already!

For Pete's sake, after they mess them up even more...don't let em back out to go kill someone!

There are laws in place in some states that do require physicians and prison doctors to treat inmates without indifference or disregard, and in some cases if proven families can sue for civil lawsuit in violation of their civil rights I believe. Some of these prisons are privatized and make a profit by falsifying documents that they did treat inmates for medical issues, when in fact they did not. Most of these prisons and those that run them are counting on the fact that the public doesn't care about those incarcerated. I think you still need to be humane even if the person who is incarcerated wasn't to someone else. We are above that or at least should be as a society. Your right we need to make up our mind if we really want to rehabilitate these folks or go on lying about what we are really doing with them in these prison facilities and what the long term repercussions are in the end.

[buzzworm86]

The United States has a little over 300-million people. The worlds population is almost 7-billion. The United States holds 20% of the worlds prison population! There is truth in the belief in the prison industrial complex.

[Sensia]

Originally Posted by buzzworm86

The United States has a little over 300-million people. The worlds population is almost 7-billion. The United States holds 20% of the worlds prison population! There is truth in the belief in the prison industrial complex.

Yea privatized prisons have become big money.

By the way I thought I would share this article which makes very good points on this very subject. Before people start saying a prisoner should live in as tiny cell as possible, and have nothing but a brick wall to stare at you better think again..

The Rehabilitation "Myth" of Prison" Crippling our convicts

"According to the Bureau of Justice Statistics, 67.5% of released prisoners will be re-arrested within three years of their initial release. In 2007 nearly 16% of parolees at-risk for returning to prison did. The Commission on Safety and Abuse in America’s Prisons says that as of 2006, 2 million people are incarcerated in the United States, with African-Americans representing seven times more of the prison population than whites.

...According to the San Francisco Chronicle, this year California will dismiss close to 850 prison workers in an effort to cut $250 million in rehabilitation spending. Other states, like Connecticut, Delaware, and Michigan are considering plans to follow."

[buzzworm86]

You cant treat anyone on a sub-human leval and expect that they respond as more than human or saint like. I look back on my one and only offense of a DWI with 100 hours of community service. I was treated like the lowest of the low by the people I did community service for. I couldn't even imagine what it would be like if I were to be incarcerated. Imagine never being allowed to sleep with the lights off.

[Sensia]

Originally Posted by buzzworm86

You cant treat anyone on a sub-human leval and expect that they respond as more than human or saint like. I look back on my one and only offense of a DWI with 100 hours of community service. I was treated like the lowest of the low by the people I did community service for. I couldn't even imagine what it would be like if I were to be incarcerated. Imagine never being allowed to sleep with the lights off.

+1

[Guest021012]

Originally Posted by London Rayne

Do you guys feel that our prison system allows for too many perks concerning people who are repeat offenders for serious crimes? I mean, I realize you can't just stick them in a hole if you plan on letting them out one day, but what about those on death row already? Should they too be given the chance for improvement?

Do you think isolation could make an individual MORE dangerous than before they got locked up?

How much is too much? Cable, fitness, oatmeal cookies? Should prisoners who killed and raped children still be allowed a certain standard or quality of life?

I feel for those who are not on death row and who will be let back into society one day, that these things are imperative to their mind being stable when they get out. If you take a person with only petty crimes and isolate them, they become animals. Our prison system seems to make people worse than they were before they went in..how is this a justifiable cause for our tax dollars and to society as a whole?

I feel if they are going to let these people back in the world, that rehabilitation is essential to them succeeding after their time is served. Do you feel they warrant that, or should they just be forgotten for the mistakes they made?

I guess the major question I want to explore is if our Govt. actually fks us up more within the prison system.

Anyone?

This is a great post!! Personally, I hold an antiquated view on criminal punishment. I think the current system is set up too much like a resort and not punishment. Turn all prisons into work camps; they should produce something of value for their trespasses against society. Farms, hardware, even live-stock..
As for a chance for improvement, yes, I think (almost) everyone deserves a chance. With the exception of joy murders, violence towards the defenseless,(children, handicapped, elderly) and such; in which case humane euthanasia is in order. Pedophilia is a brain disorder and can not be cured. Period. Child sexual criminals should be put down.
The system is broken, theres no doubt about that, they have just built a place where seasoned criminals can pass on the depravity and horror that made them who they are. For serious criminals to successfully return to the free world they have to be completely broken down and rebuilt. Not even 10 years in a cell will undo the damage they incurred to make them what they are. Real therapy, real consequence, real results.

There are WAY too many "human rights" in place to really deal with the scum of the earth. If being send to a real like island like from "escape from LA" was a real possibility, bet there would be less murder and rape. I mean, really whats the penalty for brutally torturing, raping, and killing a child? Death (only in some states) but you're going to get 10-15 years of 3 hots and a cot.. and cable..and hot showers..and visits from fam.. and a locker in your room to store food..a personal radio..art supplies..instruments.Oh, don't forget that they are free to practice religion, so if they find one that says they have to have a HUGE feast on one day or some other absurdity, they get it.
All the while, people who are getting convicted for pot or DUI are put in the same place as rapists.. Yeah, it makes small timers seasoned criminals.

[TexTushHog]

So we want good health care for our prisoners, but not good health care for our fellow citizens who are poor??!!! Oh the irony.

[buzzworm86]

Originally Posted by TexTushHog

So we want good health care for our prisoners, but not good health care for our fellow citizens who are poor??!!! Oh the irony.

They dont need to be mutually exclusive.

[Sensia]

I think the statistics say it is up to 30% of the prison/jail population that are convicted are for non violent crimes ie; drugs, prostitution, theft

Because of our 3 strikes your out, and tougher longer sentences we now have non violent offenders aging in the penal system and now needing medical care on par with aging issues. Just fyi..

Edit: let's not forget the mentally ill that have been shuffled from institutions due to cutbacks and shut downs and into the penal system too.