OBAMA BETRAYS MILITARY SECRTS

[dilbert firestorm]

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

Ok. I will admit I know very little about military operations. I also don't know if there is any valuable intel on board a drone which hasn't already been compromised. I agree that it is likely not worth any American lives to recover, and a cruise missile strike could go wrong and kill innocent people.

That being said, if we are going to be sending drones over hostile territory that are carrying sensitive intel, there ought to be a self destruct sequence we can initiate remotely to prevent these issues. It's embarrassing that our President has to ask a hostile government to return a top secret piece of equipment we were using to spy on that government.

This may not be Obama's fault, after all. It is more likely the CIA fucked up the design of the damn thing.

how about the U.S. Airforce? they had a hand in the design of this thing.

from what I gather, the drone didn't appear to be Iran airspace intentionally. it was in Afghan airspace when they lost control of it and flew into Irans airspace. but yeah there should have been a self-destruct mechanism on board once it determined that they cannot regain control and was going into inappropriate airspace.

Iran's claim that they shot it down is kinda dinky, the drone apparently landed safely.

I suspect that it may be due to bad programing, the drone could have returned to the mothership after losing contact.

[wellendowed1911]

Originally Posted by I B Hankering

Exhibit A, Iran is showing video that the drone - with stealth technology - survived the crash. The drone is built with stealth technology: shape, air-frame, radar-absorbing material, etc., it survived the crash, . . . Voilà!

This statement seems to refute your earlier statement where you said:

Evidently, they have much to learn by your own observation.
The U.S. invests the dollars and years into R & D, and the Chinese (and/or Iranians) copy the technology. Yeah, no problem.

So let me ask you this- do you think by just looking or holding a piece of a downed plane that another country can just copy the technology???? When the U.S and Iran were allies in the 70's the Iranian air force had at that time the top U.S fighter jet in the F-16 when the ayatollah took over I didn't see Iran or the soviets copying the technology and creating fighter jets to match the F-16. The F-16 which is being quickly phased out and replaced by more advanced stealth fighters like the F-22 still outclasses and outperforms any of the Soviet Mig fighters or Chinese aircraft. So by you suggesting that because they have the plane they know how to replicate it is very far fetched. How do they know what material s used to make the plane? Do you think the plane has a label that says what the material is made of? How do they know the technology that makes the plane absorb radar??? There are tons of things that they will never find out because it's classified.
You act as if next week the Iranians or Soviets can start mass producing hundreds of stealth drones- sorry it's not that easy.

[Whirlaway]

Obama's pathetic response....

"With respect to the drone inside of Iran, I’m not going to comment on intelligence matters that are classified. As has already been indicated, we have asked for it back. We’ll see how the Iranians respond."

Inquiring minds want to know. Did he remember to say “please”?

[Max]

Guess the poor Republicans are still hurt that Obama did what Shrub couldn't get done in eight years and kill the asshole that attacked the USA.

[dilbert firestorm]

Originally Posted by Whirlaway

Obama's pathetic response....

"With respect to the drone inside of Iran, I’m not going to comment on intelligence matters that are classified. As has already been indicated, we have asked for it back. We’ll see how the Iranians respond."

Inquiring minds want to know. Did he remember to say “Pretty please”?

there fixed it for ya!

[Iaintliein]

It was reported a couple of weeks ago that a virus was found in the drone operating system that was tracking every command, and recurred every time it was scrubbed.

The drones should have been grounded until that was sorted out. I don't know who made the decision to keep flying them, but it had to have been discussed in the oval office I would think.

[Whirlaway]

Thanks Dilbert; btw, the drones do have a self destruct function.

[Laz]

Originally Posted by Iaintliein

It was reported a couple of weeks ago that a virus was found in the drone operating system that was tracking every command, and recurred every time it was scrubbed.

The drones should have been grounded until that was sorted out. I don't know who made the decision to keep flying them, but it had to have been discussed in the oval office I would think.

I was also wondering about that. The only thing I can think of that could cause this to happen is if someone was able to interfere with the command signal the drone received. It did have a return to home default as well as a self destruct alternative and neither function worked. Anything is possible and failures can occur but it does make you wonder.

[Whirlaway]

NTL; military/NSC advised Obama to destroy the downed drone, but Obama punted !

[I B Hankering]

Originally Posted by wellendowed1911

So let me ask you this- do you think by just looking or holding a piece of a downed plane that another country can just copy the technology????

Every school boy from kindergarten up knows it takes less time and effort (and dollars) to copy someone else’s work. Shoot, even Waverunner knows that:

Originally Posted by waverunner234

The same happens here all the time.
McDonalds invests the money to seek good locations, Burger King just follows and saves the money.

Originally Posted by wellendowed1911

When the U.S and Iran were allies in the 70's the Iranian air force had at that time the top U.S fighter jet in the F-16 when the ayatollah took over I didn't see Iran or the soviets copying the technology and creating fighter jets to match the F-16. The F-16 which is being quickly phased out and replaced by more advanced stealth fighters like the F-22 still outclasses and outperforms any of the Soviet Mig fighters or Chinese aircraft. So by you suggesting that because they have the plane they know how to replicate it is very far fetched. How do they know what material s used to make the plane? Do you think the plane has a label that says what the material is made of? How do they know the technology that makes the plane absorb radar??? There are tons of things that they will never find out because it's classified.

Munchmasterman disagrees with you:

Originally Posted by Munchmasterman

Of course the materials the aircraft are constructed of are a technology beyond the Iranians capabilities. But so is the manufacturing process.

But of course Munchmasterman does not "know" the manufacturing process is beyond their ability – and the Munch, despite his claim to knowing the military mind, is violating one of Sun Tzu’s maxims: “Never underestimate your opponent.”

Originally Posted by Munchmasterman

Knowing what something is made out of doesn’t mean you can make it

The Soviet Union did pretty good with the info they stole from Los Alamos – and what about all of the shit the U.S. shipped home from Peenemunde? Surely it had no practical value if it couldn’t be copied. Maybe, the U.S. soldiers was just doing an end of the war “police-call”, and they were “tidying-up” before they called it quits and went home? Are you still following along WE?

Originally Posted by Munchmasterman

The Russians knew how to build cutting edge propellers for their submarines but they lacked the computers and machine equipment to do it. Until Toshiba came along.

That last sentence is one humongous qualifier isn’t it?

Originally Posted by wellendowed1911

You act as if next week the Iranians or Soviets can start mass producing hundreds of stealth drones- sorry it's not that easy.

BTW, the "Soviet Union" is gone. It collapsed while Bush I was president.

Originally Posted by Munchmasterman

Too bad the SR-71s were retired

The U.S. is still using the older U-2 technology.

Originally Posted by Munchmasterman

Anyone remember . . . Pancho Villa?

He was that dastardly dude who (purportedly) killed innocent Texans. Aw shucks: "Remember the Alamo!!!"

[CuteOldGuy]

Well, we expected this from Cheney, but Joe? Really?

http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/was...ama-over-drone

[Mr E]

Just keep up all the wild ass speculation. I will add some of my own and then correct an item or two.

Loss of contact: Did the failure happen at the control station or did it occur with the uav itself whether it be radio only or engine failure? Was the uav jammed on purpose or did another government gain control? And for the blow it up in the air guys. If the thing is not doing what you want it to do what makes you think it will blow itself up if told to do so even if it was equipped to do so. Or maybe they could have but somewhere along the line the proper steps could not be taken in time.

The crash: If it crashed in a sandy area then that would help cushion the crash especially if it came down near the stall speed rather than doing a high speed nose dive. If somebody gained control as mentioned above then it landed on a runway hence no damage. Of course with the underside covered that would either hide the landing gear and the lack of damage which would backup the hostile control theory. Or they want to be stylish by hiding the stand it sits on.

Software glitches if any on a single uav would not be discussed in DC.

Retrieval or destruction on the ground or air: Obviously retrieval or destruction in place after it landed could not be done due to not having the proper response package(troops and equipment) on scene in time to do so. Keep in mind that troop levels and capabilities in Iraq are dropping drastically even as we type. Even a missile strike or a bomb drop would require that the position be known down to a very small area to make it feasible without having to carpet bomb a larger area that would have been very noticable. And even then the response time may have been longer than it took for the capture of the drone. The lack of resources whould have precluded shooting the uav down with a fighter while it was in the air since a fighter would have to get to the area and then find it.


Back in the 70's it was two numbers smaller and a larger plane that Iran had that we had sold them. Meaning f16 is not correct. It was F14s. Granted they were not as updated as the US versions at the time. Luckily Iran was not able to get spare parts for them, aside from cannibalizing from other planes. As for copying, keep in mind the soviet empire did copy the 14 just like they copied the B1. Ironically the 14, and its big missile the phoenix was, designed to handle soviet bombers which also included the Tu-160 blackjack bomber that was a copy of the B1 once it came out.

That other big communist country that happens to start with a C, also gets its hands on stuff and makes copies and they do have the capability to do it just like the soviets did. While the soviets had to down grade the tech aspect in copies, China can keep up.

As for older tech, while some gets newer and more advanced it seems that some of the old school stuff with a few modern tweaks seems to work just fine. Could it be that the SR71 was in danger of being shot down if it flew over certain countries therefore making it too costly to have around compared to the U2 which also does not fly over certain countries. Or did it get replaced with an even better craft?

[Iaintliein]

While a glitch in a single uav may not get discussed in DC, my bet is that this would.

http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2011...s-drone-fleet/

Maybe it's unrelated, but someone was logging every command, apparently on every (or at least more than one) drone flight. It may be coincidence but to me that would be something good to know if you wanted to hijack one that got close enough.

You are, of course correct on the Iranian F14's but I'm sure our colleague 1911 will point out that the similarity to the Mig29 was just a coincidence.

[cptjohnstone]

Originally Posted by Max

Guess the poor Republicans are still hurt that Obama did what Shrub couldn't get done in eight years and kill the asshole that attacked the USA.

I believe it was billy clinton who denied the Shrub to kill Osama

[dilbert firestorm]

Originally Posted by cptjohnstone

I believe it was billy clinton who denied the Shrub to kill Osama

you are refering to some of the clinton people Bush never replaced in the intelligence community?