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The Sandbox - Dallas The Sandbox is a collection of off-topic discussions. Humorous threads, Sports talk, and a wide variety of other topics can be found here. If it's NOT an adult-themed topic, then it belongs here

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Old 10-11-2014, 12:05 AM   #31
EZ.
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Originally Posted by wellendowed1911 View Post
I think that was proven incorrect in the last PRES Debate- if the U.S opened up all the drilling it could both domestic and off shore- it would create jobs- but would have minimal impact on oil prices. Again Oil prices are a global issue again supply and demand- here is an article where 20 experts all agreed that drilling domestically or off shore would do little to lower gas prices: http://mediamatters.org/blog/2012/03...as-pric/184040

Ken Green, American Enterprise Institute, "If the U.S. produced more of its own oil, it would probably reduce imports, but it's not likely that it would reduce prices ... We probably cannot produce so much oil to exert downward pressure on prices compared to the world market."

Peter Van Doren and Jerry Taylor, Cato Institute: "Sure, more domestic oil creates the possibility of fewer refined imports tied to the price of Brent crude, but given that the price of Brent sets the price for crude generally, the result would be more profit for domestic crude producers rather than significantly lower gasoline prices for Americans (not that there's anything wrong with that)."

Doug Holtz-Eakin, American Action Forum: "Domestic action to increase production will not lower gas prices set on a global market."

Christopher Knittel, MIT economist: "There are not many markets where the United States can't impose its will on market outcomes ... This is one we can't, and it's hard for the average American to understand that and it's easy for politicians to feed off that."

Pinelopi Goldberg, Yale economist: "US domestic policy has only tiny effect on the world price of oil. US foreign policy is probably more relevant than energy policy."

Steve Koonin, Institute for Defense Analyses: "When you hear the international oil companies advocating for energy independence, it's really about making money, which isn't a bad thing ... If they produce a million more barrels a day, they're not going to change the global price much. And since they know the global price is going up, they'll just make more money. There's nothing wrong with that, but it doesn't solve the price problem or the greenhouse gas problem."

Michael Levi, Council on Foreign Relations: "The amount of oil you produce at home doesn't affect the price ... You can lower your vulnerability to price by lowering your consumption of oil, but not by increasing your production."

Severin Borenstein, UC Berkeley economist: "Producing more oil domestically will enrich the U.S. economy, particularly U.S. oil companies and their workers. With oil so valuable, it may be a good idea, though the value must be weighed against environmental consequences. But it will have no discernible impact on gas prices, because it will change the world's supply/demand balance for oil by less than 2 or 3 percent over a decade or more."

David Peterson, Duke statistician: "U.S. production and demand have little to do with the price of gasoline in the U.S."

Edward Melnick, NYU statistician: When U.S. production goes up, the price of gas "is certainly not going down ... The data does not suggest that whatsoever."

David Sandalow, former Brookings fellow: "Drilling offshore to lower oil prices is like walking an extra 20 feet per day to lose weight. ... It's just not going to make much of a difference."

Tom Kloza, Oil Price Information Service: "This drill drill drill thing is tired ... It's a simplistic way of looking for a solution that doesn't exist."

Richard Newell, former Administrator of Energy Information Administration: "We do not project additional volumes of oil that could flow from greater access to oil resources on Federal lands to have a large impact on prices given the globally integrated nature of the world oil market."

Dean Baker, Center for Economic and Policy Research: "There is almost no disagreement among economists that drilling everywhere all the time offshore will have almost no impact on the price of gas in the United States. The reason is that we have a world market for oil. The additional oil that might come from offshore drilling is a drop in the bucket in a world oil market of almost 90 million barrels a day."

Lou Crandall, Wrightson ICAP LLC: "Higher oil prices today are a global phenomenon, and the additional supply from increased drilling by the U.S. would not alter the global balance of supply and demand greatly. Gasoline prices at the pump would be higher either way. The only difference is that a somewhat larger share of the revenue would accrue to domestic interests (governmental and private) rather than to foreign suppliers."

Paul Bledsoe, Bipartisan Policy Center: "The notion that somehow we can produce so much domestically that we will move the global price is incorrect."

Tom O'Donnell, The New School: "The amount of extra oil that the U.S. would produce, as far as affecting the world price of oil, is almost insignificant."'

Deborah Gordon, Carnegie Endowment for International Peace: "We can drill doggedly in our own backyards, but the price of gasoline will remain more a matter of speculation over externally-driven factors than tapping new sources of oil at home."

Joseph Dukert, energy analyst: "Americans tend to exaggerate the price effects of fluctuations in domestic production in relation to the total amount of oil in global trade. On the larger stage, the perception of geopolitical risks is more important."

Phyllis Martin, Energy Information Administration: "In 2009, the U.S. produced about 7 percent of what was produced in the entire world, so increasing the oil production in the U.S. is not going to make much of a difference in world markets and world prices ... It just gets lost. It's not that much.
That all might be true but new techniques, shale oil and opening up other areas could reduce our dependence on oil from the Middle East.
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Old 10-11-2014, 10:39 AM   #32
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Moved to sandbox.
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Old 10-12-2014, 04:00 AM   #33
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The price of a barrel of oil and the price of gasoline at the pump are a constant source of entertainment, depending on the context.

For reference, I believe the price of gasoline at the pumps is a derivative of the price of a barrel of oil on the world markets. That's why the price at our pumps goes up immediately if there is conflict in some other part of the world.

When we hear that the US is producing more oil and gas and is moving closer to self-sufficiency, that's bullshit. Big oil is not required to sell their product in the US. Free market, right? If there are foreign bidders for our oil, the oil companies will take it, and we'll remain dependent on foreign sources. "Drill baby, drill" helps the oil companies, not the consumer at the pump.

We need to end our addiction to oil.

L4L
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Old 10-12-2014, 04:36 AM   #34
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Looks like we have some smart people here. Tell me why diesel ( the cheapest fuel to make ) is .70 cents higher than regular. Diesel was always a few cents cheaper than regular until Hurricane Katrina. It has not been close to the same price since. This makes every product we buy cost more.
About 20% of an oil barrel becomes diesel after refining. 60% for gasoline. The remaining is of heavy stuff such as paraphin & etc. It varies much among oil types, but diesel is generally much lower in percentage of a barrel thans gas.

So, with nearly 90%+ of our heavy fleet (trucks, buses, etc). Based on diesel, sometimes the demand outstrips the supply and diesel gets pricier.

Bottom line, the market forces determine prices and since supply of diesel is lower than gas...
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Old 10-13-2014, 10:05 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by jwood View Post
Looks like we have some smart people here. Tell me why diesel ( the cheapest fuel to make ) is .70 cents higher than regular. Diesel was always a few cents cheaper than regular until Hurricane Katrina. It has not been close to the same price since. This makes every product we buy cost more.
It's the added cost of removing almost all the sulfur. That reg came in coincidental to Katrina.
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Old 10-14-2014, 07:53 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by wellendowed1911 View Post
I don't think it ever hit $1.27 it did dropped significantly- what amazes me is when people tie George Bush to the drop in oil prices- he nor any President has any control of oil prices directly. When it hit that low you have to remember that is when we the economy was collapsing it was strictly supply and demand as many have point out- oil prices are directly related to consumption. As more Green cars get on the road the less demand for oil- I the Saudis were smart they would keep Oil prices perhaps in the $2 dollar range and thereby stop the momentum of the electric car and green cars.
I think the Saudi's have let it be known that they aren't totally unhappy with cheaper oil in the short run, because they feel it will hurt the frackers, who I believe need at least $70 if not $80 dollar oil to justify new projects. In the long run, though, the Saudi's, Russia, and everyone else needs $100 per barrel to really thrive.
I'm not sure Tesla owners with their 80 thousand dollar sports cars care that oil is dropping and they are saving less, but the drivers of a clunky Nissan Leaf probably are feeling bitter about the loss of savings, which is the only reason to own that cumbersome, inconvenient, non luxurious heavy little lab experiment.
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Old 10-14-2014, 08:12 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by Luke Skywalker View Post
About 20% of an oil barrel becomes diesel after refining. 60% for gasoline. The remaining is of heavy stuff such as paraphin & etc. It varies much among oil types, but diesel is generally much lower in percentage of a barrel thans gas.

So, with nearly 90%+ of our heavy fleet (trucks, buses, etc). Based on diesel, sometimes the demand outstrips the supply and diesel gets pricier.

Bottom line, the market forces determine prices and since supply of diesel is lower than gas...

If you can get 60% gasoline (rbob) from a barrel, you must be the richest man in the world. Try between 40% and 50% for most types of crude. Some of the better crudes Bonny Light, LLS, etc. get in the low 50%s. Most heavy crudes (which is most crude these days) get around 45-48%.

But overall your analysis is good.
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Old 10-14-2014, 03:37 PM   #38
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Saudi oil is also very sulfur heavy and requires much more refinement than most to meet the ultra low sulfur requirements of the EPA these days.
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