Raid during massage

[LexusLover]

I think "COPS" is a short term used to mean LE generally.

The OP said: "the police came" ... and often folks use "police" when technically it was a deputy sheriff or constable ... the same as calling them "COPS" ....

... they are all "peace officers" and they can all "inspect" aka investigate for violations by the establishment and personnel.

As long as the "inspection" is a legitimate INSPECTION/INVESTIGATION and not a "pretext" for looking for something else ... what they find or hear in "plain view (or hearing)" will be "fair game"~! And a "further" investigation would be legitimate and supported.

[iamkevinthedude]

This is not correct. There is no law requiring you to ID yourself to a cop unless he has a reasonable suspicion that you committed a crime. And you don't have to show them ID. You just have to give them your name to ID. But walking down a street or laying on a table when nobody has your dick in their mouth, you are not required to ID yourself at all, no matter what a cop tells you or asks you.

In a car, you have to show ID as a condition of your license. But otherwise? They have to have a reason.

Now, this is the law in Texas, but a cop is not likely to know it. And even if they do, they may not care. They will probably arrest you and find everything out anyway, because you may beat the rap, but you won't beat the ride.

[LexusLover]

Originally Posted by LexusLover

You can "question" it all you want and risk being arrested ....

....because it's a crime to refuse to ID or to falsely ID ...

....to a peace officer conducting an INVESTIGATION.
.....

All this bullshit about it being LEGAL is just that: bullshit, and "the cops" KNOW IT.

Originally Posted by iamkevinthedude

This is not correct. There is no law requiring you to ID yourself to a cop unless he has a reasonable suspicion that you committed a crime.


Now, this is the law in Texas,.....

I beg to differ with you on several matters ... this is one ...

Sec. 38.02. FAILURE TO IDENTIFY. (a) A person commits an offense if he intentionally refuses to give his name, residence address, or date of birth to a peace officer who has lawfully arrested the person and requested the information.

(b) A person commits an offense if he intentionally gives a false or fictitious name, residence address, or date of birth to a peace officer who has:

(1) lawfully arrested the person;

(2) lawfully detained the person; or

(3) requested the information from a person that the peace officer has good cause to believe is a witness to a criminal offense.

There is no requirement of "reasonable suspicion" ... once the person has been informed he may not leave he is under "arrest" for the purposes of the code. If he refuses to give the information he can be arrested and he will be held until he provides the information (for booking purposes) and the information he gives is verified.

If the information is false ... then that's a 2nd crime.

The problem one has with listening to the bullshit on this board is some people may actually believe it to the point they act upon it and then they get their asses in hotter water. "Prostitution" does not require a "dick in the mouth" ..

[tbone2u]

This is why I trust LL's words.

[Ned_Filanderer]

Good rule of thumb, don't play "Law and Order" and comply. Things might be much easier if you answer questions and are polite about it. You don't have to be happy, just respectful.

[LexusLover]

Originally Posted by Ned_Filanderer

Good rule of thumb, don't play "Law and Order" and comply. Things might be much easier if you answer questions and are polite about it. You don't have to be happy, just respectful.

It's called "attitude" ....

... and LE doesn't like one, unless it's theirs!

I've said it too many times ...

When our founding fathers crafted the 1st amendment a little bit later on they decided they should put in the 5th to remind people that just because they CAN SPEAK doesn't mean they should and they have a right not to speak!

Just imagine how smart they were over 200 years ago, compared to today.

[mryoungl]

So basically if your already in handcuffs or they are detaining you is when you have to show ID so always ask if your being detained

[MarcellusWalluz]

The outcome of most interactions with L.E. is determined by your common sense, attitude & demeanor regardless of the circumstances or "hard facts". Sure there are some "by the book" types & very few are straight up dicks, as long as you don't come at them with any "sovereign citizen" type of b.s. things usually go fine.
Not giving advice just speaking from my experiences over the years.

[iamkevinthedude]

That's failure to identify once you are a person who has been "lawfully arrested"

Do you know what it takes to lawful arrest someone? Reasonable suspicion that they have committed a crime.

There is no law in Texas requiring you to ID yourself to a cop just because they ask you. Again, they'll still arrest you for contempt of cop, but you can decline to identify you. Two years ago, the legislature considered passing a law requiring you to identify yourself whether or not you are suspected of a crime, but it did not pass and has not been re-submitted.

If you are suspected in a crime, or lawfully arrested, you have to ID yourself, and you cannot lie about it. Otherwise, tell them you know your rights and you don't have to ID yourself. They still run your plates, or find a reason to arrest you, but that's a different issue. It is why it's best to ID yourself and not give them any reason for a pretextual arrest.

[iamkevinthedude]

Originally Posted by LexusLover

It's called "attitude" ....

... and LE doesn't like one, unless it's theirs!

I've said it too many times ...

When our founding fathers crafted the 1st amendment a little bit later on they decided they should put in the 5th to remind people that just because they CAN SPEAK doesn't mean they should and they have a right not to speak!

Just imagine how smart they were over 200 years ago, compared to today.

(The first 10 amendments were added at the same time, as a condition by the southern states to approving the Constitution as a whole.)

[iamkevinthedude]

Originally Posted by iamkevinthedude

That's failure to identify once you are a person who has been "lawfully arrested"

Do you know what it takes to lawful arrest someone? Reasonable suspicion that they have committed a crime.

There is no law in Texas requiring you to ID yourself to a cop just because they ask you. Again, they'll still arrest you for contempt of cop, but you can decline to identify you. Two years ago, the legislature considered passing a law requiring you to identify yourself whether or not you are suspected of a crime, but it did not pass and has not been re-submitted.

If you are suspected in a crime, or lawfully arrested, you have to ID yourself, and you cannot lie about it. Otherwise, tell them you know your rights and you don't have to ID yourself. They still run your plates, or find a reason to arrest you, but that's a different issue. It is why it's best to ID yourself and not give them any reason for a pretextual arrest.

Actually, I misspoke here. To be arrested requires probable cause. Higher standard than reasonable suspicion. To be stopped and questioned they need a reasonable suspicion, so that law wouldn't even apply until you're arrested.

But again, like at least one other poster has mentioned, just because you know your rights and enforce them doesn't mean you won't get arrested by a dick cop anyway.

[rustyshackleford112.7]

Originally Posted by MarcellusWalluz

The outcome of most interactions with L.E. is determined by your common sense, attitude & demeanor regardless of the circumstances or "hard facts". Sure there are some "by the book" types & very few are straight up dicks, as long as you don't come at them with any "sovereign citizen" type of b.s. things usually go fine.
Not giving advice just speaking from my experiences over the years.

This is good advice....just say yes sir and no sir and comply to there requests.

[mochamagicman2]

you're fine OP... they won't waste resources trying to track you down... for a "he said... she said' case; it's not like you were caught in the act

[LexusLover]

Originally Posted by iamkevinthedude

(The first 10 amendments were added at the same time, as a condition by the southern states to approving the Constitution as a whole.)

Really?

[LexusLover]

Originally Posted by iamkevinthedude

Actually, I misspoke here. To be arrested requires probable cause. Higher standard than reasonable suspicion. To be stopped and questioned they need a reasonable suspicion, so that law wouldn't even apply until you're arrested.

But again, like at least one other poster has mentioned, just because you know your rights and enforce them doesn't mean you won't get arrested by a dick cop anyway.

You are misleading people. Period.

So you are going to argue with the cop that the cop lacked probable cause to arrest you and based on YOUR evaluation of PC you are refusing to identify yourself to him? And you are giving that kind of advice to an anonymous person on a blog board?

Since you are a lawyer, you will be FREE to assist them with the legal problems they have gotten themselves into by following your BLOG ADVICE!!! All they need to do is PM for your bar license number so they can get your RW contact information for when they are in jail after following your advice.

Before you dig too deep a hole you should probably review the LEGAL DEFINITION OF "ARREST" and "PROBABLE CAUSE"!

So here is the customary scenario in a spa: naked with condoms and money changing hands. Good luck with winning your "PC" DEBATE!!!!