Newbies Start Here

[Ginger Doll]

What about Trinity's "Fuck You, You're Fired" thread? A lot of good info in there, also. That may have been posted before your time here, Spanky. I'll see if I can dig up the link… It's hilarious.

[Guest110920]

Originally Posted by watchoutthegameisrigged

Lots of good info for newbies here. We have all been there. There used to be a good sticky in the OK forum by a previous mod advising newbies. I was going to add it to this thread but it seems to now be gone. I will add this and it covers a ton of ground. A huge ton. The Golden Rule applies here every bit as much as it does in the real world. Maybe more. If you are not familiar with it, I suggest some research. To paraphrase, treat others as you wish to be treated. Amazing how well that works.

I believe this is the OK thread that watchout referenced:

https://www.eccie.net/showthread.php?t=1339214

[Guest110920]

Originally Posted by Ginger Doll

What about Trinity's "Fuck You, You're Fired" thread? A lot of good info in there, also. That may have been posted before your time here, Spanky. I'll see if I can dig up the link… It's hilarious.

I've seen it, it's great! Wouldn't be a bad idea to post it in here if you find it.

[Ginger Doll]

Originally Posted by SpankyJ

I've seen it, it's great! Wouldn't be a bad idea to post it in here if you find it.

https://eccie.net/showthread.php?t=874923

[ddepthroatme]

I know the only "issue" I had with P411 was them calling up with work verificaton Was told it would be like a general background check or credit score or some type innocent check I had used lady often She HAD worked for agency & called in to verify to them I was ok After she got out of the bussines I used agency until got bait & switch 2 or 3 times Started with P411 after that with no major issues

[Guest110920]

Originally Posted by ddepthroatme

I know the only "issue" I had with P411 was them calling up with work verificaton Was told it would be like a general background check or credit score or some type innocent check I had used lady often She HAD worked for agency & called in to verify to them I was ok After she got out of the bussines I used agency until got bait & switch 2 or 3 times Started with P411 after that with no major issues

If anyone is wondering about P411's verification process, I found it very discreet and non-intrusive. There was certainly no indication to anyone what it was about or anything that would arouse suspicion. I think what ddepthroatme was saying is that they can do alternate means of verification for those instances where normal employment verification does not work, such as for retired or self-employed clients.

If you're worried about them having your information - well, someone is going to have it, most likely. To my mind it's better for it to be a single, disinterested entity (in that they aren't who you're making appointments with. They are more like an information broker). They say they destroy it after verifying you and I believe it. They don't keep your credit card on file (if you used one), you have to provide it again each year if you want to renew. When you think about it, not keeping your information around protects them too. One well-publicized data breach, and they would likely be out of business, or at least greatly diminished. The ideal solution is to not keep data that is vulnerable to this. That's why I believe them - it is also to their benefit to not keep your personal info on file.

[watchoutthegameisrigged]

Spanky, that is the OK post I referred too. And I think the bottom line in that post for newbies is that nobody owes you a damn thing here, especially "a chance" until you prove yourself worthy of it. Ladies open themslelves up to all sorts of potentially bad things here and any lady that does not give due consideration to that fact is not a lady a newbie - or an experienced monger - should be engaging in illegal acts with.

I was real new here when I met Ginger and she gave me some advice that I have always remembered: LE does not really care all that much about what two consenting adults do. But throw drugs or trafficking or underage girls into the mix and you increase your odds for trouble exponentially.

As far as Backpage, there is nothing inherently wrong with another venue to advertise - and no guarantees with ECCIE. But until a newbie learns what he is doing and what to look for, BP is much more dangerous than here. Newbies: try your hardest to get established with ladies established here who are well reviewed. Yeah, you are going to have to jump through some hoops but there are ladies here that are willing to work with newbies. But as you go through that process, understand that at the start she has no idea whether you are a cop, a rapist, a serial killer or just kinda hate women in general.

This may appear to be the sex candy store but understand these ladies are living, breathing and feeling human beings. They are not sex dolls. They deal with the same day to day crap in their lives as everybody else - in some cases a lot more. They all have family obligations of some sort and a lot of them have kids. Show them some respect and it will normally be returned. There is absolutely no reason our business here cannot be conducted with mutual respect - and believe me, it's a hell of a lot more fun that way.

Read my sig line and take it to heart. Leonard summed it up nicely in 21 words. You are not boy friend/girl friend, even though you engage in the most intimate of activities. There are lines here that can't be crossed. This is a business, albeit the most personal of businesses.

And yes, Trinity's fuck you, you're fired thread is chock full of great info from the provider side. Try to see things from the provider's perspective as much as you can. It will serve you well.

[Guest110920]

Originally Posted by watchoutthegameisrigged

Spanky, that is the OK post I referred too. And I think the bottom line in that post for newbies is that nobody owes you a damn thing here, especially "a chance" until you prove yourself worthy of it. Ladies open themslelves up to all sorts of potentially bad things here and any lady that does not give due consideration to that fact is not a lady a newbie - or an experienced monger - should be engaging in illegal acts with.

I was real new here when I met Ginger and she gave me some advice that I have always remembered: LE does not really care all that much about what two consenting adults do. But throw drugs or trafficking or underage girls into the mix and you increase your odds for trouble exponentially.

As far as Backpage, there is nothing inherently wrong with another venue to advertise - and no guarantees with ECCIE. But until a newbie learns what he is doing and what to look for, BP is much more dangerous than here. Newbies: try your hardest to get established with ladies established here who are well reviewed. Yeah, you are going to have to jump through some hoops but there are ladies here that are willing to work with newbies. But as you go through that process, understand that at the start she has no idea whether you are a cop, a rapist, a serial killer or just kinda hate women in general.

This may appear to be the sex candy store but understand these ladies are living, breathing and feeling human beings. They are not sex dolls. They deal with the same day to day crap in their lives as everybody else - in some cases a lot more. They all have family obligations of some sort and a lot of them have kids. Show them some respect and it will normally be returned. There is absolutely no reason our business here cannot be conducted with mutual respect - and believe me, it's a hell of a lot more fun that way.

Read my sig line and take it to heart. Leonard summed it up nicely in 21 words. You are not boy friend/girl friend, even though you engage in the most intimate of activities. There are lines here that can't be crossed. This is a business, albeit the most personal of businesses.

And yes, Trinity's fuck you, you're fired thread is chock full of great info from the provider side. Try to see things from the provider's perspective as much as you can. It will serve you well.

Excellent advice from a seasoned veteran that I and many others I know
have great respect for. I would listen to what the man is telling you here.

[watchoutthegameisrigged]

Thanks Spanky. It's daunting to be a newbie. We all were at one point. But establish a good board persona here, find a few ladies that will work with a newbie, provide what they need to be comfortable seeing you (if you think it's too much info, try another lady), see them, be a (clean and on time) gentleman and write a couple of reviews and this world opens wide. It's really amazing how easy it gets once you are established. But it is not a process that can be rushed. As mentioned, P411 can help a ton. You don't HAVE to have it but it sure makes things easier, even after you are established.

I would add that if a lady does not provide the services you prefer, badgering her for them is only going to accomplish one thing - it will piss her off royally. That's the last thing you want. There are ladies here I don't see because their services are not what I seek. And the last thing I would do is put myself in a room with them trying to go past her boundaries. That is a sure fire recipe for a disaster session and trust me, these ladies spread the word about an unruly client. But there is a market here for just about anything (almost) if you look for it.

[D_3rror]

This thread is invaluable! Ill most likely end up reading this and the other threads multiple times.

[watchoutthegameisrigged]

When I decided to make this leap - damn sure not a decision taken lightly - I got on here and studied my ass off for six months about how to do this right before I made a move. But I'm a careful MF here, with too damn much to lose to get caught - newbies need to think about that from their own perspective. This is not rocket science - but there are some principles here and a discipline here that are absolutely required. If you are a married man, way the hell even more so. And understand that random shit you have zero control over can put you in an awkward spot. Keep your head on a swivel and think ahead about your cover stories. You may need them. I damn sure have, even as ultra careful as I am. There are important people in your life that there is just no way in hell to explain this to. It's a serious leap gents. Think about it long and hard before you make it. I am damn sure not telling you not to make that leap - just to give it some serious thought before you do. It's a big leap in a lot of ways. It will change you, not for the better or worse necessarily, but it will change you.

[Guest110920]

(Note: much of the below concerns incall. Outcall is a lot simpler from the client perspective; just let the provider in when she arrives and leave the donation out where she can see it, in accordance with any donation handling requirements on her showcase. After the point where you are in the same room together as described below, outcall should be similar).

You're ready.

You've located a newbie friendly provider:
https://eccie.net/showpost.php?p=1059886916&postcount=2

You made contact in an appropriate way and passed her screening requirements:
https://eccie.net/showpost.php?p=1059887093&postcount=7

She's agreed to see you!

You've made a plan, including familiarizing yourself with her showcase / P411 profile to get any needed information, such as donation handling, preferred communications mode, etc:
https://eccie.net/showpost.php?p=105...8&postcount=23

You have bathed yourself properly and are smelling gooood:
https://eccie.net/showpost.php?p=105...5&postcount=13

She has sent you the first text (or made the first call) to tell you her general location:
https://eccie.net/showpost.php?p=105...0&postcount=22

So, you are on your way. It may be helpful to calm your nerves, which are very likely a mess at this point, to know what to expect.

When you get to her general location, check the time. If you've followed my advice about leaving early for traffic contingencies you most likely have arrived a little early. That doesn't mean you should text her and let her know as soon as you arrive. Wait until the appointment time to text or call for her room number. It's important to not be late, but also to not be early, as she is likely still getting ready almost up until time to see you. She'll send the room number and that's your cue that it's OK to go there. Note, this assumes she's in a hotel, which is the most common scenario in my experience. If it's a private residence and all you have is an intersection or landmark, you probably do need to text her from there when you arrive so there's time to make the next leg of your journey.

Typically you'll get a reply that's just the room number, for example "218" (or street address if residential). Once you get that it's time to head to where she is. If going to a private residence instead of a hotel, I'll typically wait somewhere nearby (not on her street though) until appointment time and then send a text so she knows I'm on the way to her door.

Here is where we need to talk about discretion, at least one part of it. Whether in a hotel or a private neighborhood, the last thing your provider wants is undue attention being directed her way. Look like you belong there. Don't count your donation walking through the hotel lobby, or be on the phone asking her the room number there. Try not to look lost as you attempt to locate the elevator. You may be very nervous walking through the lobby, thinking everyone is watching you and has a pretty good idea why you're there. That is not the case. They don't give a shit about you, unless you give them a reason to. So don't.

When you get to her room, don't bang loudly on the door. She knows you're on the way, and a few light taps will suffice. Sometimes she may even be watching from the peephole and open it when she sees you without you having to knock. On a couple of occasions providers have let me know they left the door slightly ajar and to come on in, but this is not as common. Just don't make loud noises and attract attention. If you're there at certain times of day, you may encounter housekeeping staff. They also don't give a crap about you. Just be cool.

In a hotel, she may be behind the door where you are unable to see her when she first opens it. This is pretty common in my experience and nothing to worry about. Perhaps she's wearing a skimpy outfit and doesn't want to flash passersby, or possibly just wants to keep people who have seen her face in the hotel to a minimum.

Often you'll get a hug and perhaps a small kiss when you enter. You'll typically be invited to sit down on the bed with her and have some conversation to break the ice. If you're nervous, it's okay to acknowledge it. It might actually be better - due to nerves, your body language or mannerisms may be off-putting. Showing some vulnerability by telling her you're a bit nervous could serve to put her more at ease herself and not read too much into any negative body language cues you're giving off.

On the way to the bed is a good time to lay the donation down. Simply put it where she can see it. Do not mention it, gesture to it, or call attention to it any other way. The bedside table works well unless she's specified some other place. Envelope or no envelope depends on her preference as specified in her showcase or P411 profile. I usually don't use an envelope unless the lady has requested it because I know a few ladies specifically don't want an envelope. Most don't care, as far as I can tell. There are ladies that would like you to excuse yourself to the restroom at this point so they can verify your donation (you'd know from reading their showcase - you did that, right?). I comply with that if I know about it. If you're seeing reputable ladies from eccie/P411, they should still be there when you get back. If seeing less reputable ladies from elsewhere, it might be riskier.

So you'll talk on the bed for a bit and at some point she'll likely use the phrase 'get comfortable', as in 'would you like to get comfortable?' or 'feel free to get comfortable'. That means you are free to remove whatever articles of clothing would impede your progress for whatever activities you have in mind. In other words: take your clothes off. It's time for what you came for.

I'm not going to get into specifics about activities but here are a few words of advice:

• Ask for what you want. She's not a mind reader.
• However, if you ask for what you want and the answer is no, it means only one thing: no. Yes, consent is still required, even when paying.
• Some ladies have a well-defined routine they use, others prefer for you to lead. You'll just have to figure that out as you go.

I personally try to keep track of the time and pacing so that I'm ready to leave when my time is up. It takes a while to get used to that though. Some providers are OK if you go a few minutes over (but if you do, I'd suggest leaving them a tip). You'll be a lot more popular with them if you aren't a guy who habitually pays for a certain amount of time and then tries to overstay for a longer time without compensation.

Be as discreet when leaving as you were when entering. Don't let the door slam, don't call attention to her or to yourself. Just be another face in the crowd.

Will every first appointment go exactly as described above? No, of course not. This is giving you what is in my experience the most common scenario but you should always be prepared to ad lib if things go differently.

[watchoutthegameisrigged]

Spanky and I are coming at the same subject from different angles - but we are coming at the same subject.

[Guest110920]

In a previous post, you learned how to be discreet (pedantic: the proper word is indeed discreet, not discrete) before and after the session, by not doing anything that would call attention to yourself, your provider, or hint at your purpose for being there. Discretion - the characteristic of one who is discreet - goes far beyond that, however, and extends outside of the scope of any individual session.

In my view, discretion means being cautious about what is shared so that you don't reveal any details about the provider that she doesn't publicly reveal herself, such as:

• Anything about her real identity
• Her phone number, unless she posts it publicly herself
• Details or clues about her location
• Anything shared with you in confidence

It may be helpful to think of a few examples.

Phone number is one that trips a lot of people up, Don't post it in a review unless the provider publicly posts it herself. Instead you can just put something like "provided after screening". Don't share her phone number with other clients or potential clients. If she wants them to have it, she will have posted it in her showcase. Also, don't include her phone number if you are using her as a reference. Provider name, email, and showcase link are generally sufficient, and some providers don't even want their phone numbers shared with other providers, so the best practice is not to include it. They have ways of reaching each other.

You may encounter providers that disguise their true appearance in some way for purposes of further obscuring their identity in showcase pictures. I personally think it is out of bounds to reveal the nature of the disguise in that case. At the very least, if you're going to talk about it, say in a review, don't mention it in the physical description, only in ROS. But I think a better option is not to talk about it at all.

It is unlikely to happen on a first encounter, but in the future if you have providers you see on a regular basis, you may at some point be given their true first names. That should not be revealed to anyone - other providers or clients alike.

If you go to a provider's residential incall, you must protect information about her location. Don't get too specific about it in reviews, forum posts, PM discussions, or anywhere else. I am intentionally vague about locations in reviews, so if you'd like an example of what I mean, just check some of my reviews. Even for providers in hotels, don't use the hotel name. She might still be there, and even if not, it's best not to bring attention to any particular hotel being used.

Those are just a few of what I consider to be the most important examples. Here is where I could use some help from the providers - what other advice would they give about discretion?

[Guest110920]

It's a question I've seen come up a lot, and a somewhat surprisingly controversial one, as you can see from this thread in the National discussion forum: https://eccie.net/showthread.php?t=2137216

Short answer: Tip if you want to. Don't if you don't want to. There's no standard.

Arguments for/against tipping (not necessarily all mine, but mine and ones I've seen):

For Tipping:

It's a way to show providers you like your appreciation. Especially appropriate if a provider has gone "above and beyond" in some way - perhaps accommodated a particular fetish, wore a requested outfit or costume, etc.

You may not even be aware of it, but if you tip a provider regularly, you may over time merit some sort of special treatment by that provider - perhaps scheduling priority, or any number of other things. I don't think you should tip for this purpose - it should really just be to show your appreciation. But sometimes, when generosity is shown, it is also returned. Nice when it happens but again I don't think it should be the reason for tipping. Note that if you are told something like "I'll do _______ if you give me a tip," that is not really a tip, but an upcharge, especially if a specific amount is mentioned. I make no judgment here about upcharges in general, just saying that it's not really a tip.

Against Tipping:

Arguments against tipping generally focus on the provider being the proprietor of her business rather than an employee who should be tipped. A restaurant analogy is frequently used: the provider is more like the owner of a restaurant than a server in the restaurant, and you wouldn't tip the owner. The argument is often made that providers set their own rates and if they require higher compensation it should be included in the donation requirement. Sometimes a sentiment is expressed that clients tipping providers encourage them to raise their rates.

So, now you are probably no less confused about tipping than when you started reading this. It really does just come down to what you want to do. Tip if you want, don't if you don't want to.

I generally tip local regulars. Sometimes others on a case-by-case basis. I'm less likely to tip if a provider's menu doesn't encompass all of my interests and more likely if she's especially engaged in the session or does something special for me (don't read this as doing anything unsafe, that's specifically NOT what I'm talking about here).

If you choose to tip, you'll have to decide whether to do it along with the regular donation or after the session. I'd recommend being unobtrusive about it and not just handing it to her, which could be a little awkward. You could just lay it down where you put the donation, for instance. Also keep in mind that tips don't have to be monetary. Many ladies appreciate gifts as well, perhaps even more. Often they will list favored types of gifts in showcases or P411 profiles.

I do think if you have regulars that you tip, you should be aware that you've set a precedent and it might cause some hurt feelings if you stop, or at the very least cause the provider to wonder if she did something wrong or displeasing and didn't get your usual tip for that reason.

I typically do not mention tips in reviews. As I said, it can be a controversial topic and can draw some negative comments at times. I don't see where mentioning a tip adds any value to the review. I would recommend mentioning it in one specific case: if you've indicated in some way that you stayed longer than the amount of time given for the base donation and you tipped her for it, I do think you should mention that so that you don't look like you are taking advantage.