The Controversy of building a mosque in close proximity to WTC?

[nsafun05]

A fearful person is afraid of the things around them. A vigilant person is aware of the things around them. I only suggest we be vigilant. There a big difference between the two.

[dirty dog]

Originally Posted by nsafun05

A fearful person is afraid of the things around them. A vigilant person is aware of the things around them. I only suggest we be vigilant. There a big difference between the two.

I agree, and if you check my original statement I prefrenced my comment on the associations this cleric has, of course I would not want them there if they have ties to terrorisim. But, I think the dye has been cast on this one, when you have the mayor supporting it, I dont see whats going to stop it.

[wellendowed1911]

So I take it now that Obama has pubicly stated that he has no issues with a mosque being built near ther WTC- that you guys will admit that the GOP and the far right are wrong for attacking his stance?

[Cheaper2buyit]

look the bottom line is that there are a lot of rules that they have to be meet even if you want to build a portapota so if they meet them then let them build stop this scared shit

[john_galt]

Obama was wrong, period! There is no right to build anything in NYC. There is a right to worship but that does not include a building. A right by definition is granted by either nature or God and does not inconvience anyone else by you exercising that right. There are numerous hoops that have to be jumped through by anyone who wants to build in NYC and that by definition shows that there is no right. Obama, the former constitutional law professor, was just plain wrong.

[catnipdipper]

Crap from a bull Galt!

I wonder if there are any Christian churches anywhere near any known concentration camps?

We either stand for the rule of law or we don't. Obama said he stood for the rule of law, not the appropriateness of the decision.

You are so afraid of life, immigrants, the poor, muslims why not just move to the Ozarks with all of your weapons and wait for the end of days.

[lacrew_2000]

I think the Republicans are going over-board in their opposition. I don't like the mosque, and I think it should be recognized for the bastard power play that it is...but I don't know what means could be used to stop it. If they purchase the property, and follow codes, they should be allowed to build it. The governor of NJ (republican) has already warned GOP leaders to 'turn it down a notch'.

However, I have no idea why Obama interjected himself into this situation, for no particular reason. It was an off-teleprompter moment, and I'm sure his handlers are not at all happy.

"I wonder if there are any Christian churches anywhere near any known concentration camps?"....WTF...all I can say is WTF are you talking about.

...but if you want to go down that road, ponder how many synagogues are in Saudi Arabia

[bringerin]

I'm with lacrew on this one. There's just too much demagogy from the right on this, comparatively minor subject. A couple of points:
1) This isn't at Ground Zero, it's two blocks away from ground zero. You can't even see the building if you're standing at the WTC site. If you didn't know it was there you wouldn't even care.
2) The imam of the Cordoba House has been on Fox News many times representing moderate Islam. If he's a moderate and the right is angry about his cultural center then their problem is not with this project, it's a problem with ALL Islam. And that's fine, but he honest about your opposition.
3) Most importantly: this is private property! If the citizens of NYC decide to let the Cordoba house go into the old Burlington Coat Factory building in lower Manhattan (and polls of NYC'ers suggest that this is the case), then WTF is anyone getting upset about? Isn't the goal of conservatives to have less government intervention? This should be a simple issue. Private property = private rights.

[john_galt]

Private property = private property rights? Not since Kelo vs New London. The state now has the ultimate say about YOUR property. The Supremes said so.
You missed the news? Just last week the Pope criticized a group of nuns that were trying to create a monastary outside of one of the concentration camps.
The Cordoba building was struck by the landing gear of one of the jets that passed through a tower. That makes it part of ground zero.
I give you the Greek orthodox church that was destroyed when the towers collapsed upon it. The money has been collected to rebuild it but the city is throwing roadblocks in front of it because they want to recreate the traditional orthodox church design including a dome. Why a mosque and not a church? Riddle me that.
As for being a conservative; property rights should be paramount but that is not the reality and anytime something has to appear before a zoning board (or similar body) then the right has now become a privilege and can be denied. You can't even build what you want in Johnson county until someone approves. Does that sound like a right?

[catnipdipper]

Hey a tan White Castle wasn't so bad.

If approval prior to painting keeps my neighbor from going to a pink house then I am happy to get a review on it.

Absolute freedom is anarchy and chaos.

[wellendowed1911]

Originally Posted by lacrew_2000

I think the Republicans are going over-board in their opposition. I don't like the mosque, and I think it should be recognized for the bastard power play that it is...but I don't know what means could be used to stop it. If they purchase the property, and follow codes, they should be allowed to build it. The governor of NJ (republican) has already warned GOP leaders to 'turn it down a notch'.

However, I have no idea why Obama interjected himself into this situation, for no particular reason. It was an off-teleprompter moment, and I'm sure his handlers are not at all happy.

"I wonder if there are any Christian churches anywhere near any known concentration camps?"....WTF...all I can say is WTF are you talking about.

...but if you want to go down that road, ponder how many synagogues are in Saudi Arabia

I was agreeing with you up until the last point where you mentioned: "how many synagougues are in Saudia Arabia?" I have seen many protesters at rallies with signs or signs but the flaw in that statement(s) is WE ARE NOT Saudia Arabia!!! Saudia Arabia is an Islamic Theocracy government where the laes are based o the Koran. The United States is a free democratic nation for ALL people- for ALL races of ALL religions- so to mae a comparison of what is or not allowed in Saudia Arabia vs the United States is like comparing Apples to oranges.

[nsafun05]

Part of what is being overlooked in this discussion is the fact that imam Feisal Abdul Rauf who wants to build the mosque has refused to state that Hamas is a terrorist organization - which the State Department has declared it to be. He is also on record as saying that the United States is partially to blame for 9/11.

So people are naturally upset that he wants to build a mosque so close to where muslim terrorists murdered thousands. The connection is not difficult to make. A man who won't admit that a group of terrorists are terrorist wants to build a mosque near where terrorists murdered thousands of innocent people.

While I have reservations about muslims now since 9/11, they are protected just like the rest of us and they have the right to build places of worship just as any religious group should. But they should take into consideration the sensitivity of those who lost loved ones at the World Trade Center. A great lesson that they could learn comes from Pope John Paul II.

This is taken from an article written by Abraham Foxman and it can be found at the Huffington Post.

"The lessons of an earlier and different controversy echo in this one. In 1993, Pope John Paul II asked 14 Carmelite Nuns to move their convent from just outside the Auschwitz death camp. The establishment of the convent near Auschwitz had stirred dismay among Jewish groups and survivors who felt that the location was an affront and a terrible disservice to the memory of millions of Jews who died at the hands of the Nazis in the Holocaust.
Just as we thought then that well-meaning efforts by Carmelite nuns to build a Catholic structure were insensitive and counterproductive to reconciliation, so too we believe it will be with building a mosque so close to Ground Zero."

[lacrew_2000]

OK...I deal with zoning boards and planning commissions all the time. Private property rights still exist, even post Kelo. Very regularly, I stand up and state that our project should be approved, because the owner has met all regulations and requirements. I still believe that...even if its a group hell bent on causing grief to their neighbors (must be why Phelps still lives here).

Here is the skinny on the greek church - they do not want to rebuild on their original site, because they want to build a church three times as large as the old one. Therefore, they are proposing a 'land swap' with the Port Authority. So, first, the church has to convince the PA that their acre is just as valuable as the PA's 3 acres, based on location. After that is accomplished, the WTC committees have to get their shit together, and actually know what they are going to build, and whether or not they need either parcel of ground. That is the reason for the delay...nothing sinister, just business as usual.

Wellendowed...I don't think it is possible to have this discussion...in which islamic leaders are imploring us to be tolerant...without at least noting that islam and islamic politics are joined at the hip...and much of the muslim world is much more interested in conquest and conversion than peaceful coexistence. Freedom from a state sponsored religion and tolerance of religious beliefs are commendable...but when the religious beliefs include inciting anti-american violence, it smacks or yelling fire in a theater...there has to be a limit. So, I say let them build their mosque (timed to coincide with the 10 yr anniversary of Sep 11 btw)....but until they quit chanting 'death to america' twice a day in Iran, and Islam quits generally funding and endorsing terror around the globe, I will only barely, begrudgingly, 'tolerate' them.

[KCJoe]

Don't care what they do in New York. Wouldn't want people from New York telling us in KC what to do.

[kcbigpapa]

Originally Posted by lacrew_2000

I think the Republicans are going over-board in their opposition. I don't like the mosque, and I think it should be recognized for the bastard power play that it is...but I don't know what means could be used to stop it. If they purchase the property, and follow codes, they should be allowed to build it. The governor of NJ (republican) has already warned GOP leaders to 'turn it down a notch'.

However, I have no idea why Obama interjected himself into this situation, for no particular reason. It was an off-teleprompter moment, and I'm sure his handlers are not at all happy.

"I wonder if there are any Christian churches anywhere near any known concentration camps?"....WTF...all I can say is WTF are you talking about.

...but if you want to go down that road, ponder how many synagogues are in Saudi Arabia

Wow LA, I don't think I could agree more with you. Scary isn't it?