Prostitution v SD/SB Why is one legal?

[royamcr]

Originally Posted by Buying a *Way to Heaven

When a sugarbaby wants money, she calls her sugardaddy. When a hooker wants money, she advertises. That's the difference.

And hookers fixate on hours, half hours, Blow and gos... SBs are more about dates with benefits, and sex usually.

[Gotyour6]

No, you are expected to have sex. But it is something that is implied and not discussed.

I would tell girls I am looking for a SB, someone that wants to go out to dinner, on trips and a few overnights.

First few nights would be local over nights to make sure we click. To see if we can sleep in the same bed without fighting over who gets what side.

[Fancylady]

Originally Posted by Gotyour6

No, you are expected to have sex. But it is something that is implied and not discussed.

I would tell girls I am looking for a SB, someone that wants to go out to dinner, on trips and a few overnights.

First few nights would be local over nights to make sure we click. To see if we can sleep in the same bed without fighting over who gets what side.

But still paying for sugar baby.

[Gotyour6]

Originally Posted by Fancylady

But still paying for sugar baby.

That is obvious
Being a 48 year old hooker I am sure you know that.
What is your point?

[Fancylady]

Originally Posted by Gotyour6

That is obvious
Being a 48 year old hooker I am sure you know that.
What is your point?

You have to pay for sugar baby.Sugar baby not dating you for free.I get paid to be 48yr old hooker like rest of hookers and sugar babies. Have a good day : )

[Whispers]

Originally Posted by Fancylady

You have to pay for sugar baby.Sugar baby not dating you for free.I get paid to be 48yr old hooker like rest of hookers and sugar babies. Have a good day : )

Over time a Sugar Baby with a true sugar daddy will grow as a person,,,,, complete an education...... be mentored into a career and become self supportive.....

Over time a 48yo hooker will become a 51yo hooker.....

A SD/Sb relationship can survive years after the initial reason for getting to know each other and can involve two people fond of each other that maintain contact.....

Most transactions with hookers are over when she walks out the door.... Some after he writes the review......


On subject...... I see many guys approaching the SD/SB thing in the same transactional manner they pay for escorts.... I have no doubt overtime we will read about guys and gals getting busted for it.....

But LE works with a budget and if targeting prostitution wil most likely spend their time on the transactions that occur between true hookers and johns. After all.... The average hooker will have dozens of clients a month and that can yield additional busts..... A SB will typically only have one or two guys.....

Now if they want some media attention the whole SB/SD lifestyle has been racking national exposure... It would be very easy for LE to sting guys on some of the Sb websites... There is a laxness among many of the "john types"....

I think the grey area defines the differences as well as the lack of LE interest...... The "value" some young ladies seek is NOT money..... I met one girl looking for contacts in the music industry... another that wanted access to exclusive art exhibits..... things money could NOT buy..... Many of my relationships with young ladies is about exposure to a lifestyle and things of interest to them they cannot get from their regular dating pool.... I have met MANY that think they came for the money that stick around in the absence of cash

There are areas of the relationship that yield unexpected and amazing results..... I met a single mom and spent an afternoon doing a FAFSA for her and helping her enroll in college.... When she was accepted and financial aid was in place with classes paid for extra money in her bank account from the disbursements I was surprised with a rather incredible weekend of carnal events.... How is something like that going to result in a guy getting busted?

[Fancylady]

Originally Posted by Whispers

Over time a Sugar Baby with a true sugar daddy will grow as a person,,,,, complete an education...... be mentored into a career and become self supportive.....

Over time a 48yo hooker will become a 51yo hooker.....

A SD/Sb relationship can survive years after the initial reason for getting to know each other and can involve two people fond of each other that maintain contact.....

Most transactions with hookers are over when she walks out the door.... Some after he writes the review......


On subject...... I see many guys approaching the SD/SB thing in the same transactional manner they pay for escorts.... I have no doubt overtime we will read about guys and gals getting busted for it.....

But LE works with a budget and if targeting prostitution wil most likely spend their time on the transactions that occur between true hookers and johns. After all.... The average hooker will have dozens of clients a month and that can yield additional busts..... A SB will typically only have one or two guys.....

Now if they want some media attention the whole SB/SD lifestyle has been racking national exposure... It would be very easy for LE to sting guys on some of the Sb websites... There is a laxness among many of the "john types"....

I think the grey area defines the differences as well as the lack of LE interest...... The "value" some young ladies seek is NOT money..... I met one girl looking for contacts in the music industry... another that wanted access to exclusive art exhibits..... things money could NOT buy..... Many of my relationships with young ladies is about exposure to a lifestyle and things of interest to them they cannot get from their regular dating pool.... I have met MANY that think they came for the money that stick around in the absence of cash

There are areas of the relationship that yield unexpected and amazing results..... I met a single mom and spent an afternoon doing a FAFSA for her and helping her enroll in college.... When she was accepted and financial aid was in place with classes paid for extra money in her bank account from the disbursements I was surprised with a rather incredible weekend of carnal events.... How is something like that going to result in a guy getting busted?

Thank you writing post about me and jumping on bandwagon with the other. :ro flmao:.Hookers and sugar babies wouldn't make no time to see you without money.

[Vivienne Rey]

Originally Posted by OldButStillGoing

Ok, let me reword my question.

What legal grounds could be argued that a SD/SB relationship is not prostitution?

Because it isn't illegal to ask for money. It is illegal to sell sex.

[Vivienne Rey]

Originally Posted by Fancylady

Thank you writing post about me and jumping on bandwagon with the other. :ro flmao:.Hookers and sugar babies wouldn't make no time to see you without money.

These relationships exist on a spectrum from non committal to committed and loving. So, no, they are not all like the hooker/john relationship. Outside of this, I won't date someone who is not financially secure. It is a condition of the relationship and it is a financial one. That wouldn't make me a hooker. Both of my SD's gave me an allowance. I would have ended it if they had stopped, because it was understood that was part of the gig. But so was the chemistry. If I no longer enjoyed the ride, I'd have walked as well.

What makes a hooker a hooker is the fact that she is offering a service. No doubt many of them are on the SD sites to skirt the law. But there is a difference.

[ShysterJon]

Vivienne Rey: I love it when an intelligent provider posts in my beloved legal forum. Thanks for sharing your views.

[Whispers]

Originally Posted by ShysterJon

Vivienne Rey: I love it when an intelligent provider posts in my beloved legal forum. Thanks for sharing your views.

Did you forget to Thank Fancylady for .... err... uhhh.... wait....


Never Mind

[sketchball82]

Originally Posted by Fancylady

Thank you writing post about me and jumping on bandwagon with the other. :ro flmao:.Hookers and sugar babies wouldn't make no time to see you without money.

Many non-hooker dates wouldn't make time to see you without money too.

Just like many guys would not be interested in a normal relationship without sex.

My point is that most traditional relationships also have the elements of (i) money or other consideration (i.e., gifts, dinner, etc.), and (ii) sex. Yet, I don't know of anyone that would consider dating the same as prostitution, at least at the practical level.

But at the legal level, as much as I hate it I have to agree with Woody and SJ above.

There are a lot of legislatures that write statutes intentionally overly broad so the police can enforce most technicalities, expecting the police not to enforce extreme examples that are not intended to be prostitution. In other words, the statutes are written intentionally gray. For example, consider the Michigan statute:

Originally Posted by MCL 750.449a

750.449a Engaging services for purpose of prostitution, lewdness, or assignation; engaging services with person less than 18 years of age for purpose of prostitution, lewdness, or assignation; penalty.
Sec. 449a.

(1) Except as provided in subsection (2), a person who engages or offers to engage the services of another person, not his or her spouse, for the purpose of prostitution, lewdness, or assignation, by the payment in money or other forms of consideration, is guilty of a misdemeanor. A person convicted of violating this section is subject to part 52 of the public health code, 1978 PA 368, MCL 333.5201 to 333.5210.

(2) A person who engages or offers to engage the services of another person, who is less than 18 years of age and who is not his or her spouse, for the purpose of prostitution, lewdness, or assignation, by the payment in money or other forms of consideration, is guilty of a crime punishable as provided in section 451.

One could violate this statute by:

• Committing prostitution.
• "Wear that low cut shirt that shows more boob that you should. In return I'll buy you that necklace you wanted. It'll look great with that shirt."
• "Meet me at that hotel we normally go to; I found that 1992 Merlot we've been wanting to try."
• "I'm going to take you to a nice restaurant; then I'm going to take you to the hotel we normally go to!"
• With a girlfriend of 3 years: "I got last minute Sam Smith tickets for tonight; and I want you after."

It's so broad, that the legislature even added an exception for spouses, likely to prevent overzealous police departments from trying to charge spouses with this statute.

The only reasonable argument I can think of in Court is that that unspoken third prong of prostitution tests is not met, the link between sex and money... sex (or lewdness or assignation) FOR money. Depending on the fact pattern, this may or not be persuasive:

• A first date with sex and cash exchanged—probably convicted as this looks just like prostitution.
• A 50th date at a Sam Smith concert for her (consideration) and then a hotel (sex)—probably acquittal as it would not look like sex FOR the tickets and would also look like a date in a traditional relationship.

But the only real difference between these two is history and how the sugar baby was spoiled. Both of those influence the jury's perception.

My overlying point is that prostitution statutes are often written broad enough that it reads even on innocent spousal relationships. If it could read on spousal relationships (assuming the exception were not written into the law), it could certainly read on sugar arrangements. So technically, it is illegal. But that still does not mean you'd be convicted. It all boils down to the specifics of your arrangement and how long you've been together.

On a practical note my sugar relationships are much more like a relationship with a secret girlfriend than they are a john seeing a hooker. In truth, I've had 3 sugar arrangements now that turned into girlfriends. After a couple dates with a sugar baby, I generally have a good sense of what she wants. If she's interested in only allowance (i.e., she's a hooker calling herself a sugar baby), then I end it, and start looking again. If we actually connect, and any allowance is a bonus, then we'll get along fine. I'll spoil her rotten.

Here's my question to you: if the only difference between my sugar arrangements compared to my traditional GFs is that we met on seekingarrangement (implying she wants or expects to be spoiled) instead of eHarmony (no implication), and I spoil the former with an allowance and the latter with lavish gifts... does that mean my traditional GFs are also prostitutes through no actions of their own but only because I'm a generous and benevolent guy? In this hypothetical the only real difference between a sugar baby and a GF is that my sugar baby wanted to be spoiled and it was a bonus for my GF. Is that the what makes a hooker, wanting (or even expecting) to be spoiled instead of getting it incidentally? The end result is the same in both cases... Food for thought.

[TravelingGentleman]

Originally Posted by Whispers

Over time a Sugar Baby with a true sugar daddy will grow as a person,,,,, complete an education...... be mentored into a career and become self supportive.....

Two things that I found interesting in this thread were this - and someone's assertion about relationships and money. If you boil any relationship down to its roots, its about sex and money.

Men are biologically coded to spread their seed as far and wide as possible to procreate and sustain their genetic line (and species), while women are biologically coded to seek mate(s) that can sustain them and provide viable offspring. Social and moral conditioning affect these base imperatives, but that is the core of our genetic programming: Species survival. Since bartering and money became part of society, strength was replaced by money, but the sex piece has stayed the same.


Prostitutes, escorts, marriage, sugars, boy/girlfriends; it all boils down to sex and money - the viability of a mating partner.

I digress. I've been in my first SD/SB relationship for a while I suppose. I surprised myself by finding her in real life and being friendly, not finding her on the internet. We enjoy each others' company, and while she knows I'm married, that doesn't prevent us from having fun. I have never put money into her hands - but rather have introduced her to aspects of life that she didn't know existed; or have helped her with a legal problem, or have helped her set up an LLC for the business she wants to create.

I think she'd be offended if I actually tried to give her money because she's quite prideful, but she does accept gifts, which I enjoy giving because I know she'd like them - not because she had a list of gifts she likes on a website, but because I've gotten to know her well enough to see what makes her smile.

My point:
-Someone asking for money in exchange for sex or a relationship is a prostitute. They may advertise that they are a sugar baby, but they are a prostitute.

-Someone expecting money in exchange for sex or a relationship is either a gold digger or a prostitute. Legally, they are indistinguishable.

You're going to take your wife / girlfriend / female friend / date / consort / escort / prostitute / sugar baby out to dinner and pay for it. It ends in sex. The fact that you paid for her food - which is literally the act of you having provided her the legal tender to settle an outstanding debt - is judicially indistinguishable from providing her the cash itself to do the same.

All of those, including your wife - which end in intercourse can be interpreted as money for sex. The sole difference with a spouse is your legal contract (marriage license) that makes the exchange legal. I think someone else pointed out that the only thing that matters is how you did the exchange, and whether you pissed off LE, DA, or judge.

[Gotyour6]

Originally Posted by Fancylady

You have to pay for sugar baby.Sugar baby not dating you for free.I get paid to be 48yr old hooker like rest of hookers and sugar babies. Have a good day : )

My sugar baby turned into my girlfriend.
She just turned 23 and I don't pay for anything but dinner on Saturday night. I do that stuf for my girlfriend.

Please write about stuff you know about.

I wrote you are a 48 year old hooker.

Now run along 48 year old hooker.

[Fancylady]

Originally Posted by Gotyour6

My sugar baby turned into my girlfriend.
She just turned 23 and I don't pay for anything but dinner on Saturday night. I do that stuf for my girlfriend.

Please write about stuff you know about.

I wrote you are a 48 year old hooker.

Now run along 48 year old hooker.

Are you old man with young girlfriend(sugar baby)?You paid for dinner and Saturday night.You jump on bandwagon with others trashing me. ...All ages of hookers in the business.No hookers or sugar babies see no one for Free.