In 2007, George Floyd put gun to pregnant womans belly

[LexusLover]

Originally Posted by Why_Yes_I_Do

I'm hearing there may have been a "woman" issue between them. We'll see. No way they did not work at the same place for a couple years and NOT know each other to some extent. I know that if I was the club owner, I would have asked (paid) the off-duty officer to do some back ground checking on all employees on the down low.

This board was the first I'd heard they worked at the same place and/or otherwise might know each other. But ...

... that heightens my interest in how the situation evolved from Floyd sitting on the sidewalk leaning back against the building wall after being handcuffed by a tall lean Black officer who had assisted him in sitting down and getting back up to walk out to the vehicle ....... to lying on the street pinned down with a White officer's knee into the neck smirking while Floyd complained he couldn't breathe.

And now it's rumored they may have known each other, because they worked at same spot in similar roles?

[LexusLover]

Originally Posted by 1blackman1

Yes

[Lucas McCain]

Originally Posted by Levianon17

Yeah he tried to get a fresh start in a life of crime so he tried to cash a worthless, check that's how he met the Minneapolis Police. Furthermore the actions of the Police didn't cause his death. Floyd had a plethora of health issues his encounter with police exacerbated them. Once that fact is presented in court these officers will be exonerated and they'll get their jobs back. Officer Chauvin will probably get thirty days suspension for some Departmental Violation of use of force.

Incorrect. Those officers were fired for a reason. Chauvin is going down. You don't do what he did. There is no excuse for that. He is going away. He will be lucky if he only gets 10 years. When you are fired so quickly as a cop, that's a problem in court.

[Chung Tran]

Originally Posted by Lucas McCain

Incorrect. Those officers were fired for a reason. Chauvin is going down. You don't do what he did. There is no excuse for that. He is going away. He will be lucky if he only gets 10 years. When you are fired so quickly as a cop, that's a problem in court.

of course.. there is a large element on this Board that like to argue.. the 2 guys whose handle starts with an "L" are the 2 biggies.

[1blackman1]

Originally Posted by friendly fred

Well, since you are a lawyer, what is your opinion of the official autopsy report of George Floyd's unfortunate death finding "other significant conditions," including fentanyl intoxication and recent methamphetamine use as well as existing heart disease."

Fentanyl is a known "respiratory depressant".

Should that effect the charge against the officer?

I don't have enough knowledge about fentanyl to know whether it would have an effect directly. That said, I don't believe it would have any effect since we would still have the "but for" aspect of the cop on his neck. Regardless of fentanyl in his system he was not going to die.

Take for instance someone operating with a single damaged lung. You place them in a position where they cannot breathe properly with the single bad lung but a healthy person would be ok. That person dies. Your culpability remains even when if a fully healthy person likely would have survived. Unless Fentanyl was already killing him, it isn't relevant in determining whether there was a murder, just made him easier to kill.

At the end of the day, he was killed and very few other things will make any difference in changing that fact. None of the other crap being said by people that got there law degree from Tucker Carlson College or Hannity University will be determinative of whether the charge will be sustainable.

[friendly fred]

Originally Posted by 1blackman1

I don't have enough knowledge about fentanyl to know whether it would have an effect directly. That said, I don't believe it would have any effect since we would still have the "but for" aspect of the cop on his neck. Regardless of fentanyl in his system he was not going to die.

Take for instance someone operating with a single damaged lung. You place them in a position where they cannot breathe properly with the single bad lung but a healthy person would be ok. That person dies. Your culpability remains even when if a fully healthy person likely would have survived. Unless Fentanyl was already killing him, it isn't relevant in determining whether there was a murder, just made him easier to kill.

At the end of the day, he was killed and very few other things will make any difference in changing that fact. None of the other crap being said by people that got there law degree from Tucker Carlson College or Hannity University will be determinative of whether the charge will be sustainable.

Reasonable answer. Fentanyl also slows the heart rate and lowers blood pressure.

So, yes, he might have been dying already, combined with his heart disease and age.

Concerning the "but for" argument, but for taking fentanyl illegally and having heart disease, if he wouldn't have died "but for" those elements of the situation, it could change the charge from murder to manslaughter.

If this were Texas, a reasonable explanation is provided here:

"The Difference Between Manslaughter And Murder In Texas

When one person dies as a result of another person’s actions, that is always considered a homicide. However, there are various kinds of homicide, not all of which are illegal (i.e. self-defense), with varying degrees of repercussions.

Criminal homicide cases are divided into two different charges: murder and manslaughter.

To help you understand the difference in Texas, we’ve detailed each below:

Murder

Murder charges are further divided based on the severity and other circumstances surrounding the crime. While many states separate murder charges into first and second degree murder, Texas law makes a distinction between “capital murder” and “murder.”

In order to be charged with murder, the defendant must have knowingly and willingly caused the death of another person. The biggest distinguishing factor between murder and manslaughter involves the intent of the perpetrator. If the defendant intended to cause serious bodily harm or death, or intended to commit a felony other than manslaughter that resulted in death, he or she can be charged with murder.

The distinction between capital murder and murder is made when the killing was committed in a way that can result in capital punishment in Texas. Some of the criteria for capital murder include killing a police officer or firefighter, having been paid to commit murder, murdering someone in prison, or killing more than one person.

With regard to capital murder, obviously, the punishment can result in the execution of the defendant. A defendant who is convicted of capital murder could also be given life in prison without the possibility of parole. A murder charge without capital implications, on the other hand, is a first-degree felony which can result in anywhere from 5 to 99 years in prison and a fine of no more than $10,000.

Several defenses, such as insanity or a crime of passion defense, can result in lesser charges or penalties in murder cases.

Manslaughter

Many states have two different forms of manslaughter: voluntary and involuntary. Texas, however, combines these two charges into one and has enhanced penalties for certain aggravating factors.

To be convicted of manslaughter, a defendant must be proven beyond reasonable doubt to have recklessly caused the death of another person. As opposed to murder, intent does not need to be proven in order to convict someone of manslaughter."

https://www.medlinfirm.com/blog/the-...rder-in-texas/

I don't know what the law is in NY but likely similar distinctions are made.

I think we can say manslaughter is a slam dunk conviction. If that's all he gets, though, I think we get more riots.

[oeb11]

A pseudo -'attorney" also claiming to be a physician. Good post -ff - but u got sucked in by faux medical bloviating.

No Credibility - No Peace

No Credibility - No Peace!!!!


Pants Up -don't Loot!!!

[Why_Yes_I_Do]

Originally Posted by LexusLover

... that heightens my interest in how the situation evolved from Floyd sitting on the sidewalk leaning back against the building wall after being handcuffed by a tall lean Black officer who had assisted him in sitting down and getting back up to walk out to the vehicle ...

It's mostly covered in the arrest affidavit of the officer charged on page 2:

Charge: Murder - 3rd Degree - Perpetratlng Emlnently Dangerous Act and Depraved

...On May 25, 2020, someone called 911 and reported that a man bought merchandise from Cup Foods at 3759 Chicago Avenue in Minneapolis, Hennepin County, Minnesota with a counterfeit $20 bill. At 8:08 p.m., Minneapolis Police Department (MPD) Officers Thomas Lane and J.A. Kueng arrived with their body worn cameras (BWCs) activated and running. The officers learned from store personnel that the man who passed the counterfeit $20 was parked in a car around the corner from the store on 38th Street. BWC video obtained by the Minnesota Bureau of Criminal Apprehension shows that the officers approached the car, Lane on the driver’s side and Kueng on the passenger side. Three people were in the car; George Floyd was in the driver’s seat, a known adult male was in the passenger seat and a known adult female was sitting in the backseat. As Officer Lane began speaking with Mr. Floyd, he pulled his gun out and pointed it at Mr. Floyd’s open window and directed Mr. Floyd to show his hands. When Mr. Floyd put his hands in the steering wheel, Lane put his gun back in its holster. While Officer Kueng was speaking with the front seat passenger, Officer Lane ordered Mr. Floyd out of the car, put his hands on Mr. Floyd, and pulled him out of the car. Officer Lane handcuffed Mr. Floyd. Mr. Floyd actively resisted being handcuffed...

Interesting to note that Chauvin, guy kneeling on his neck, was not present at initial contact. He showed up later.

[Why_Yes_I_Do]

Originally Posted by Lucas McCain

...Those officers were fired for a reason. Chauvin is going down. You don't do what he did. There is no excuse for that. He is going away. He will be lucky if he only gets 10 years. When you are fired so quickly as a cop, that's a problem in court.

Well... looking like the court case will have some interesting wrinkles to iron out. Not sure how much discovery will actually be allowed. Seems there are some underlying shenanigans to tippy-toe around and maybe some folks that might have some high-end protection. Dunno for sure, but appears to be some stank in the wind.

BOLO for El Nuevo Rodeo (ENR). That's the ownership entity of the club the cop and the bouncer worked at.

Sunday Talks: Crump on Floyd – “We Don’t Understand”…

...“Officer” (in quotes deliberately) Derek Chauvin did kill George Floyd; that’s not the issue. The issue driving the media narrative surrounds why “Officer” Derek killed George. Toward the end of the interview Brennan asked Crump about Derek and George knowing each-other. Ben’s response, specifically how he phrases the admission, is what’s worth watching....

...The background ownership of ENR takes you to a shady network of LLC’s and the name Omar Investments Inc. (est. 1996). Dig a little deeper and something else becomes evident… The ownership might connect to one or more U.S. three letter agencies.

The ownership network has previous interactions with FBI operations in/around Minneapolis. This is not surprising because Minneapolis Minnesota has more national security operations ongoing than any other community in the country. Various Somali groups are being watched, and anyone can do a google search to see when those security operations surface in the media.

Omar Investments Inc. owns El Nuevo Rodeo Cantina and night club since 1996. The principle of Omar Investments Inc. is Muna Sabri. In 2001 a close relative, Basim Sabri, was captured by the FBI in a sting operation....


And just like that, the rabbit hole goes 8 miles subterranean...

[1blackman1]

You do realize that manslaughter is also murder. Death by the hands of another.

[LexusLover]

Originally Posted by Why_Yes_I_Do

It's mostly covered in the arrest affidavit of the officer charged on page 2:

Charge: Murder - 3rd Degree - Perpetratlng Emlnently Dangerous Act and Depraved

...On May 25, 2020, someone called 911 and reported that a man bought merchandise from Cup Foods at 3759 Chicago Avenue in Minneapolis, Hennepin County, Minnesota with a counterfeit $20 bill. At 8:08 p.m., Minneapolis Police Department (MPD) Officers Thomas Lane and J.A. Kueng arrived with their body worn cameras (BWCs) activated and running. The officers learned from store personnel that the man who passed the counterfeit $20 was parked in a car around the corner from the store on 38th Street. BWC video obtained by the Minnesota Bureau of Criminal Apprehension shows that the officers approached the car, Lane on the driver’s side and Kueng on the passenger side. Three people were in the car; George Floyd was in the driver’s seat, a known adult male was in the passenger seat and a known adult female was sitting in the backseat. As Officer Lane began speaking with Mr. Floyd, he pulled his gun out and pointed it at Mr. Floyd’s open window and directed Mr. Floyd to show his hands. When Mr. Floyd put his hands in the steering wheel, Lane put his gun back in its holster. While Officer Kueng was speaking with the front seat passenger, Officer Lane ordered Mr. Floyd out of the car, put his hands on Mr. Floyd, and pulled him out of the car. Officer Lane handcuffed Mr. Floyd. Mr. Floyd actively resisted being handcuffed...

Interesting to note that Chauvin, guy kneeling on his neck, was not present at initial contact. He showed up later.

Actually, that doesn't cover it. The video does, because after that portion you posted Floyd was escorted without resistance to the side of the building and assisted in sitting down so he could lean against the building while sitting .... and he was subsequently assisted by the same officer (tall lean Black officer) to stand and the same officer escorted him back the rear of the vehicle from which he originally emerged from behind while handcuffed. Floyd did not appear combative or resisting... annoyed, yes!

I will look up the document.

The officer who has my interest is "Lane" I believe. He was the initial arresting officer and responsible for Floyd's well being and safety. Assuming the affidavit is accurate (apparently he also had a body cam) then he has some criminal (and civil) liability in Floyd's death.

[LexusLover]

Originally Posted by 1blackman1

You do realize that manslaughter is also murder. Death by the hands of another.

Give it a rest! You're WAY over your head.

Manslaughter is a "homicide"!

Sec. 609.195 MN Statutes. (a) Whoever, without intent to effect the death of any person, causes the death of another by perpetrating an act eminently dangerous to others and evincing a depraved mind, without regard for human life, is guilty of murder in the third degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 25 years.

609.20 MN Statutes. MANSLAUGHTER IN THE FIRST DEGREE.
Whoever does any of the following is guilty of manslaughter in the first degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 15 years or to payment of a fine of not more than $30,000, or both:

(1) intentionally causes the death of another person in the heat of passion provoked by such words or acts of another as would provoke a person of ordinary self-control under like circumstances, provided that the crying of a child does not constitute provocation;

(2) violates section 609.224 and causes the death of another or causes the death of another in committing or attempting to commit a misdemeanor or gross misdemeanor offense with such force and violence that death of or great bodily harm to any person was reasonably foreseeable, and murder in the first or second degree was not committed thereby;

(3) intentionally causes the death of another person because the actor is coerced by threats made by someone other than the actor's coconspirator and which cause the actor reasonably to believe that the act performed by the actor is the only means of preventing imminent death to the actor or another;

(4) proximately causes the death of another, without intent to cause death by, directly or indirectly, unlawfully selling, giving away, bartering, delivering, exchanging, distributing, or administering a xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx classified in Schedule III, IV, or V; or

(5) causes the death of another in committing or attempting to commit a violation of section 609.377 (malicious punishment of a xxxxxxxxx), and murder in the first, second, or third degree is not committed thereby.

As used in this section, a "person of ordinary self-control" does not include a person under the influence of

[friendly fred]

Originally Posted by 1blackman1

You do realize that manslaughter is also murder. Death by the hands of another.

That is covered by this sentence in the previous post.

"Criminal homicide cases are divided into two different charges: murder and manslaughter."

[LexusLover]

Originally Posted by friendly fred

That is covered by this sentence in the previous post.

"Criminal homicide cases are divided into two different charges: murder and manslaughter."

Amazing that you have to so inform one who calls himself a "lawyer"!

That concept is covered in 1st year "Criminal Law" in a regular law school, but I am not sure about Cracker Jack Box school.

Ex-Officer Lane is primarily responsible for Floyd's death.

[oeb11]

One would think a so-called "attorney" would know statute.