President Obama to ease up on Cuba.

[i'va biggen]

If Bush had done this all you would hear is accolades from the right.

[WTF]

Originally Posted by dallaswill

I feel normalization will allow Capitalism to flow into Cuba and slowly erode Communism. Once the people of Cuba get access to consumer goods they will move away from Communism. Also, we have diplomatic relations with every other Commie country except N.Korea. I just rec'd a shipment of car parts from Vietnam. Keeping Cuba isolated has been bad foreign policy. We are busy telling the rest of the world how to run their foreign policy and we can't deal with little Cuba, 90 miles away. Does not make sense.

Originally Posted by RALPHEY BOY

I say about time, jeeze,.. we have normal relations with Vietnam and China, they are one party Countries.

Originally Posted by Whirlaway

What did we get from Cuba in exchange ?

Can't answer it can you.....?

Nixon got multiple things from his China trip including an agreement by the Chinese to a peaceful settlement of the Taiwan question. We also got strategic leverage against then cold war opponent Russia. Most importantly was the Shanghai Communique.

Again, what did Obama get from the Castros?

Originally Posted by RALPHEY BOY

I have no clue and I could care less what 'we are getting' we do not always have to be 'The Winner' and 'our way or the Highway', is not productive either..... I do not see it as a sprint.. its a marathon.. one step at a time to normalize relations.
we can slowly chip away and bring them into our way of thinking...has to start with some compromise

Exactly.

We have gotten our foot in the door. Let free trade do the rest. Whirly and crew are thinking short term . The next 50 years in History will prove them wrong , just as the last 50 years of isolating Cuba has proven them wrong. We would have done this long ago had Florida not been a swing state.

[LexusLover]

Originally Posted by i'va biggen

If Bush had done this .....

The thought never crossed my mind. He's smarter than that.

[LexusLover]

Originally Posted by WTF

We have gotten our foot in the door. Let free trade do the rest. .

What "free trade"?

If you want to call Obaminable's mouth "the door" ... so be it.

Actually his mouth is a "revolving door" .... never stops opening.

Exactly what is the U.S. going to make that they can buy in Cuba?

[Whirlaway]

A fair deal with Cuba doesn't mean America is the winner...our way or the highway...or some other dumbed down slogan.

Good diplomacy should translate into win-win situations. Again, what did we get in return for Obama's initiative?

Many western countries have "opened relations/trade" with Cuba; how has that influenced the Castros?

Answer: it hasn't. It is naive to think the Castros will reform because of Obama's initiatives. It only strengthens the Castros and other dictators in the region.

Originally Posted by RALPHEY BOY

I have no clue and I could care less what 'we are getting' we do not always have to be 'The Winner' and 'our way or the Highway', is not productive either..... I do not see it as a sprint.. its a marathon.. one step at a time to normalize relations.
we can slowly chip away and bring them into our way of thinking...has to start with some compromise

[JD Barleycorn]

Maybe we can exchange all those 57 Chevys for some Prius.

[WTF]

Originally Posted by Whirlaway

A fair deal with Cuba doesn't mean America is the winner...our way or the highway...or some other dumbed down slogan.

Good diplomacy should translate into win-win situations. Again, what did we get in return for Obama's initiative?

Many western countries have "opened relations/trade" with Cuba; how has that influenced the Castros?

Answer: it hasn't. It is naive to think the Castros will reform because of Obama's initiatives. It only strengthens the Castros and other dictators in the region.

You are full of shit on this one, Cuba is slowly getting there. This will do nothing but help.



http://edition.cnn.com/2013/11/20/bu...ist/index.html
The $900 million project mirrors similar developments and FTZs that have sprung up in fast-growing communist nations such as China and Vietnam in recent decades -- although experts doubt whether Cuba will follow the same path as the "Asian Tigers."
While the ruling Communist Party maintains that state control will take precedence, the ambitious development is the latest in a series of controlled reforms that have been made since Raul Castro came to power in 2008. The government has already relaxed its control over many sectors, encouraging ordinary Cubans to fill the void with their own private enterprises.

"Cuba is shedding its old skin and it's becoming something else which is like a hybrid of models," explained senior Latin America fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations and author of the book "Cuba: What Everyone Needs to Know," Julia Sweig.
"This will (likely consist) of a much larger private sector, a much smaller social sector with the basics of social protection left in place, a lot more personal autonomy and economic freedom for Cuban people without necessarily moving beyond the single party system," she added.

[Jackie S]

Ok, I have a good friend who is a Cuban National. His parents were some of the originol refuges that managed to get out when Castro was consolidating his power.

In Cuba, they owned what we call a ranch. The raised cattle, and crops. They were in the upper echelon of Cuban Society. They managed to get most of their money out, but the Government seized all of their assets.

Their idea of normal relations with Cuba is to allow all of the people who left to go back and take back what was theirs.

That ain't gonna happen. We are now into over three generations that have known nothing but the way Cuba is now. Our concept of "freedom" simply does not exist in Cuba.

That is why I think the "China Model"might work for Cuba. The people get to enjoy some of the finer things in life, but the Thugs in power get to keep their leash around their necks, lest they begin to get strange ideas, like enjoying many of the "Rights" that are garranteed to us in our Bill of Rights in our Constitution.

Of course, we have Polititians in this Country who see our Bill of Rights as a pesky nuisance that really should be modified to reflect their Progressive Agenda, which centers around taking from those who have and giving it to those who will vote for them.

[rioseco]

Originally Posted by i'va biggen

Damn I didn't realize you were gay.

And I didnt realize that you could read.
I am not gay, but it appears that I have a "gay stalker" these days.
Are you now applying for the role of "stupid stalker" ?
I hope not, One at a time is already too many.

[rioseco]

Originally Posted by Whirlaway

A fair deal with Cuba doesn't mean America is the winner...our way or the highway...or some other dumbed down slogan.

Good diplomacy should translate into win-win situations. Again, what did we get in return for Obama's initiative?

Many western countries have "opened relations/trade" with Cuba; how has that influenced the Castros?

Answer: it hasn't. It is naive to think the Castros will reform because of Obama's initiatives. It only strengthens the Castros and other dictators in the region.

We did not get anything. Obama got one rung higher on his ladder of apology to all nations who harbor terrorist or are governed by commie regimes.

[Jewish Lawyer]

Originally Posted by WTF

Should have done this 20 years ago...

Yes, I agree. It appears he was out negotiated again, but over time I think it will be made up for and pretty much agreed to be the right thing to do. Fifty years of sanctions - we have made our point that you cannot steal casinos from Jewish and Italian gangsters and get away with it!!!

[LexusLover]

Originally Posted by Jewish Lawyer

Fifty years of sanctions - we have made our point that you cannot steal casinos from Jewish and Italian gangsters and get away with it!!!

And we'll need anther 50 years of sanctions to prove the point that ...


..they can't steal from Chicago gangsters, either!

[I B Hankering]

Originally Posted by LexusLover

The thought never crossed my mind. He's smarter than that.

+1

Until Cuba has shed itself of the Castros, it hasn't shed its skin. Odumbo has stupidly yielded the game on the one yard line.

[boardman]

Cuba is a cold war relic.
What was there to get? Communism out? Castros Out? That wasn't going to happen by diplomacy but it will happen by attrition soon enough. Better to have a peaceful transition to some form of democracy rather than another blood bath when that time comes. People aren't going to get their property back, they won't get loved ones back but that wasn't going to happen no matter what WE did.
They are no threat to us without USSR support.
Sure, they may still be a human rights problem but don't we have those all over the world? Don't we have normalized relations with China?
Cuba is 90 miles off shore. I think Americans will start flocking there once the money starts flowing.

Now, I don't support us throwing any taxpayer money at them but if Americans want to have access to their beaches, their climate, their women then big fucking deal. It will just help ease the cause along.

[LexusLover]

Originally Posted by I B Hankering

+1

"Odumbo" has stupidly yielded the game on the one yard line.

"Odumbo" is struggling to write a viable chapter in his autobiography ...

.. so far all his "starts" have ended up in smeared ink.

Hawaii is a safe place for him to retire, but still too close to the Homeland.