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[thewad54]

Oh, no. Remeber VP Joe Biden said this is a " big f---ing deal."

[Bull149]

thewad54, both you and Biden are correct. I just received my first one. This year my incme was $18,000 less that the previous year. Yes my taxes were less by aproximately $400. At last year's tax rate they should have been almost $5,000 less. For some strange reason that feels like a tax hike.

The IRS has said that everyone will pay about 30% more in taxes next year even without tax hikes. This is because previous tax cuts will be allowed to expire.

Finally I read just today that the tax cuts reported by the IRS are a gross figure based on lower total taxes being received. While not explicitly stated, it seem that the cause is the economic downturn and unemployed.

"FACT: If you make under 250K/yr you just paid the lowest tax rates in decades."

While some may consider what I have experienced to be a non-fact, it all leads to the fact that not all facts are facts. Or as the old saying used to go, "figures do not lie, but some liers figure.

[Guest062610]

Fact:

I just sent a ridiculously large check to the IRS that I would have much rather directly donated to some ladies in this business, hell at least then I know it would be put to good use...

Fact:

Taxes suck

Fact:

Insurance sucks

Fact:

Not all things that suck are bad

LAP

[rjdiner]

I can back up everything I posted with REAL data and studies. These are not BS Faux News "some say" comments. Most of what was posted in response was pure anecdotal evidence about personal experiences. Just admit it, if this were someone besides Obama most of you wouldn't be nearly as strident. It's obvious to me that personal feelings have trumped objectivity here much like the teabaggers who accept socialism in the form of their social security check.

[Bull149]

I sure made a lot of noise about some of Bush's BS, especially his proposal for imigration reform and the first bail out bill. These were, while not the beginning of big government taker, they were the shifting into overdrive. The current administration has simply put the pedle to the metal.

Candidate Obama was correct when he said that if elected he would dramatically change the nation and now he is doing it.

My bitich is against government expansion regardless of who is doing it.

[Sa_artman]

Just my .02 of inflammatory nonsense, but I wonder how many providers actually claim their services on taxes (or even file)? Easy to be an armchair quarterback when your not in the game, eh?

Btw bull, I prefer government to the alternative. Look at Mexico for an example of a country where the government has become ineffectual. Taxes pay for the schools to educate our failing kids. Let's all stop paying taxes and close more
schools, let's stop building roads, let's stop offering grants to open small businesses, let's cut down on farm loans so we can start importing wheat and cotton, let's stop regulating firearms and let every man, women and child own one without oversite. Screw it, let's just open the borders unconditionally because it takes to much tax money to hire border patrol. Less government and we can all live free!!

-sorry Lap

[EmilyHemingway]

Originally Posted by Sa_artman

Just my .02 of inflammatory nonsense, but I wonder how many providers actually claim their services on taxes (or even file)? Easy to be an armchair quarterback when your not in the game, eh?

Ad hominem. Try again.

[Bull149]

I did not say less government, everything referred to was federal government. The closer to the people the better with the exception of security.

Where did the facts come from? The fox put in charge of guarding the hen house always gives a positiver report on the state of affairs. I have personally watched 11 different foxes follow this procedure. The only difference is the media (all of it) takes sides.

[Sa_artman]

Originally Posted by EmilyHemingway

Ad hominem. Try again.

Reverse Ad Hominem I cry! Tibi ipsi esto fidelis!

[That.guy001]

Emily Emily Emily...I didn't have the strength to break all that down. It could not have been said any better.

I don't really care who our President is...I just want all this madness to end.

[EmilyHemingway]

Originally Posted by Sa_artman

Reverse Ad Hominem I cry!

I expected a better response than "I'm rubber and you're glue, nyaa nyaa." In hindsight, an overly optimistic expectation. Altering future expectations accordingly.

Tibi ipsi esto fidelis!

Tibi ipsi dic verum.

[Sa_artman]

"Ovos teneo planto unus sentio quinymo bonus constituo non futurus a futatrix." I do believe the man from which you derive your nom de plume says it best.

[guest040711-1]

Friendly reminder folks, even in the sandbox you need to stay on topic and play nice with others. We hope for a no Bully board.

[EmilyHemingway]

All my expectations are fulfilled. If you're looking to dispute my facts on healthcare, calling me a bitch isn't an intellectual rebuttal. Even when it's done in Latin.

Escort names are nom de amour, not nom de plume.

[tallwhiteguycc]

I'm in Love.

Originally Posted by EmilyHemingway

Yeah, well, so am I. I like you anyway, and here's hoping you don't hold this too much against me. 'Coz I do surely still like you, I just, well, don't happen to agree with you right this second.

[/font]
Fact: Since the inauguration, GATA has testified credibly as to JPMorgan manipulating the silver market, Goldman Sachs has been sued by the SEC for fraud, the debt auctions have become perilous and China has been busily liquidating our bonds.

Fact: What all these things have in common is that they have nothing to do with Obama. (Bernanke, Geithner and Paulson, now... whole 'nother story.)


(You're killing me, smalls. Are you really going to make me say this?)

Fact: There is no benefit in this healthcare bill which will take effect before September.

Fact: The government will not provide one single person with healthcare, in any form, before 2014.

Fact: The oft-touted figure of 32 million was pulled out of someone's ass. The reliable stats on this one are compiled by the US Census Bureau, and I happen to have the most recent data available (2008, published in Sept 2009). According to the US Census Bureau, the number of uninsured is 46.3 million. 9.5 million are not Americans, but rather foreign-born nationals residing within our borders - neither the Census Bureau nor I choose to comment on the legality of their residence, merely the fact of their coverage. 17.8 million are presumed voluntarily uninsured, as their income exceeds the national average. The Census Bureau acknowledges that a certain unstated portion of the uninsured are, further, eligible for Medicaid and not receiving it for reasons unknown.

Ergo...

Fact: Less than 19 million Americans are uninsured due to lack of ability to obtain coverage. This number has not changed since the healthcare bill, and there is no promise that these people will be given healthcare due to this bill.

Fact: Many of the taxes, penalties and fees will take place this year while the government will not be providing any coverage until 2014.

Fact: The CBO assumed 7% GDP growth when compiling it's figures. 2008 GDP growth was 1.1%. 2007 was 2%. 2006 was 2.87%.

Fact: Playing with the figures does not make for reliable results.

And finally...
Fact: I don't care about Obama. I care that this is a bad bill. It's fiscally unsound, inefficient and a drag on an economy which is already in dire straits. It's a grossly unconstitutional misinterpretation of the commerce clause. It did not do enough for insurance reform. I would still hate this bill if it had been signed by the Almighty Jesus.

This is not a political rhetoric thing. This is not a Democrat vs Republican thing. This is about whether this bill is a benefit to the American people. I don't believe it is, and I base my opinion on a thorough knowledge of the facts. Y'all are free to disagree with me.

FTR, Beck is a grandstanding RINO clown and Cramer's an idiot. Y'all can disagree with me on that one, too.