Capitalism: A Love Story!

[CuteOldGuy]

Not until they are defined.

[dirty dog]

Originally Posted by WombRaider

I'm well aware that not everything is fair. Which is exactly why I'm asking this question. Why wouldn't you want to make something fair, if you could? Just saying, 'well it's not fair anyway, so fuck it,' is not acceptable to me.

You're hung up on how we would decide and you say let the market decide. The market is people. Just doing something the way you've always done it, because that's the way you've always done it, is the worst reason in the world to continue doing something that way.

So what I get out of what you have been saying is you don't know what the number should be but what it is now seems unfair. How much should a guy or women in charge of a 5 billion dollar a year company make? It really is a fair question, do you know what their duties entail? Should a person not be compensated for their education, experience and success? I mean come on isn't this just the redistribution of wealth that you lefties love. Instead of rewarding someone for success, you want to reward mediocrity. You chose not to get an education, you chose not to seek to better your position, you chose not to work harder, you chose to not have ambition and so because of this, I want to pay you more, in fact I want to pay you the same thing as those that did all the things you chose not to do makes. Wow yeah I can see the fairness in that.

[sand247]

Originally Posted by WombRaider

You don't think fairness or equality has any substance?

I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that you've never been in a high management position, let alone owernship of any company that generated any kind of serious revenue (2-10 million per year) Fairness and equality in treatment of people as human beings has every logical and emotional need. I do it, most people do it. Fairness and equality has very little to do with the free market and making money. If you employ 50 janitors, they should all make about the same pay, I will agree to fairness and equality. But a janitor, while necessary to the company operations, will not generate what a CEO does, and can be replaced in 24-48 hours. The training and knowledge required to manage a company that large requires decades of time and energy, not some one you can replace easily.

So yes, I believe that a CEO of a major corporation should be able to earn 300-500% and above, what their lowest paid employee does.

They are both treated fairly and equally by the market and that company, if they suck, fail to do their job and are incompetent, they will be fired, be it janitor or CEO.

Carry on.

[Budman]

Since you refuse to come up with a number and are purely focused on the unfairness of a CEO making 300 times what a low paid employee makes let's look a some numbers.

Employee making minimum wage: $7.25 PH x 40= $290 x 52= $15,080
CEO making 300 times this wage: $15,080 x 300= $4,524,000.00

That salary does not seem unfair in a large corporation. In fact it may be low depending on the market. You are so caught up in the "300 times more..." bullshit that you fail to look at what is brought to the table by each employee.

Libs always want to make the CEO out to be the bad guy and the low wage employee as a victim. Each one brings a skill set to the table and each one is worth X. You can't expect them to be comparable. If the low wage employee wants to make more money then they need to expand their skills and show the company why they are worth more. Just whining about how unfair it is doesn't work.

[dirty dog]

Originally Posted by PlayDr

It only capitalism when you rig the game to be on top alway.

Maybe they should WIRE YOUR BRAIN incompetent, and see how much you are worth.

LOL, a lot more than you, fucking retard. Learn some basic sentence structure, reading your ignorant posts is nauseating.

[dirty dog]

Originally Posted by PlayDr

is that better.

Hi Marshall, you'll be banned soon.

[WombRaider]

Having a pair is in discussing the issue at all. Not in putting a goddamn number on it. And your argument for CEO pay is weak. They don't always improve things and they STILL get a golden parachute. If a worker fucks up, it's adios and fuck you later.

[Budman]

Originally Posted by WombRaider

Having a pair is in discussing the issue at all. Not in putting a goddamn number on it. And your argument for CEO pay is weak. They don't always improve things and they STILL get a golden parachute. If a worker fucks up, it's adios and fuck you later.

You're right that some CEO's do a horrible job and walk away with a golden parachute. No argument. The thing is the company can spend their money anyway they want. We all can look at it and think it is stupid but it is their money. Government should not have a say in how they spend their money. Period.

I see a lot of money spent by companies that I think is a stupid move and a complete waste of money. However, I have no doubt that when they decided to spend this money they thought it was a good idea and would benefit the company. Many cases they are wrong. The same with employees. When a CEO is hired and a salary is agreed to I'm sure the company believes that it will benefit the company. It all comes down to one simple concept. It's their fucking money.

All you have done is whine about how unfair it is. You refuse to put forth any solution. It's the same shit we see happening all around the country. Poor, Poor me. I'm a victim. Everybody is picking on me. It's not fair. Whine, whine, whine.

[WombRaider]

Originally Posted by Budman

You're right that some CEO's do a horrible job and walk away with a golden parachute. No argument. The thing is the company can spend their money anyway they want. We all can look at it and think it is stupid but it is their money. Government should not have a say in how they spend their money. Period.

I see a lot of money spent by companies that I think is a stupid move and a complete waste of money. However, I have no doubt that when they decided to spend this money they thought it was a good idea and would benefit the company. Many cases they are wrong. The same with employees. When a CEO is hired and a salary is agreed to I'm sure the company believes that it will benefit the company. It all comes down to one simple concept. It's their fucking money.

All you have done is whine about how unfair it is. You refuse to put forth any solution. It's the same shit we see happening all around the country. Poor, Poor me. I'm a victim. Everybody is picking on me. It's not fair. Whine, whine, whine.

So you agree there's a problem, you just don't give a fuck.

and I don't remember ever saying the government should step. I think it was you who first brought that up. I'm saying that it's up to people to recognize the need for change.

[CuteOldGuy]

I think if we removed all the government protection and special tax breaks for mega corporations the problem would resolve itself.

[Budman]

Originally Posted by WombRaider

So you agree there's a problem, you just don't give a fuck.

and I don't remember ever saying the government should step. I think it was you who first brought that up. I'm saying that it's up to people to recognize the need for change.

No I don't agree there is a problem. It's their fucking money to do with as they please. You're a fucking coward. How in the fuck do you see it changing if not by government intervention? How about this, start your own fucking company and pay yourself minimum wage and pay your janitor a 100 grand a year. Then you can hold yourself up as a person of virtue albeit not very smart.

[WombRaider]

Originally Posted by dirty dog

So what I get out of what you have been saying is you don't know what the number should be but what it is now seems unfair. How much should a guy or women in charge of a 5 billion dollar a year company make? It really is a fair question, do you know what their duties entail? Should a person not be compensated for their education, experience and success? I mean come on isn't this just the redistribution of wealth that you lefties love. Instead of rewarding someone for success, you want to reward mediocrity. You chose not to get an education, you chose not to seek to better your position, you chose not to work harder, you chose to not have ambition and so because of this, I want to pay you more, in fact I want to pay you the same thing as those that did all the things you chose not to do makes. Wow yeah I can see the fairness in that.

You put all those words in my mouth. I said none of what you just said. Why is a ceo seen as success but middle management is mediocrity and somehow just a byproduct of that person not trying hard enough? Can't you see how your belief system permeates everything that comes out of your mouth?

[WombRaider]

Originally Posted by Budman

No I don't agree there is a problem. It's their fucking money to do with as they please. You're a fucking coward. How in the fuck do you see it changing if not by government intervention? How about this, start your own fucking company and pay yourself minimum wage and pay your janitor a 100 grand a year. Then you can hold yourself up as a person of virtue albeit not very smart.

So you see nothing wrong, at all? I'm the coward? You're the one who wants to keep the status quo. There's no honor or bravery involved in swimming WITH the current. And as you all do, you've exaggerated to the point of absurdity, not recognizing how weak that makes your argument look. Your only hope of success is to reduce my argument to some absurd example in order to make yours look better by comparison. I never said I wanted to pay janitors $100k a year, but the only way you win is to use some ridiculous argument like that. You don't think teachers deserve better pay? They build the foundation of this country through our kids, but their pay doesn't reflect their importance.

[dirty dog]

Originally Posted by WombRaider

You don't think teachers deserve better pay? They build the foundation of this country through our kids, but their pay doesn't reflect their importance.

So what does how much a teacher make have to do with how much a CEO makes. If I didn't know better your comment seems like a deflection. Everyone thinks that teachers are underpaid, (except most collage professors) but teachers are not corperations and therefore do not have a CEO so I am confused as to what one has to do with the other. So let me ask again, how much should a CEO make.

[WombRaider]

Originally Posted by dirty dog

So what does how much a teacher make have to do with how much a CEO makes. If I didn't know better your comment seems like a deflection. Everyone thinks that teachers are underpaid, (except most collage professors) but teachers are not corperations and therefore do not have a CEO so I am confused as to what one has to do with the other. So let me ask again, how much should a CEO make.

Your ignorance is evident in thinking that the number is the entire story. What good would nailing down an exact number do? It's a systemic failure. As a country, we do a shitty job of investing in our kids. Also, it's 'collEge' not collage. I should know. I graduated from one.