Values not guns are the problem

[cptjohnstone]

Originally Posted by joe bloe

Sheila Jackson Lee is no longer the stupidest congressperson. Hank Johnson makes her look intelligent. He thinks Guam is in danger of capsizing. It's a wonder Obama hasn't chosen him for a cabinet position.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bs23CjIWMgA

we have alot of Hank Johnson's on this board

[i'va biggen]

Originally Posted by CJ7

pretty sure they said he had one in the car ... 3 pistols on his person

May be the fog of war the report I saw said he had it in the school with semi automatic hand guns and long clips for all.

[i'va biggen]

Pic of your ATF John?

[UB9IB6]

Originally Posted by Fast Gunn

Well, you're welcome to "truly believe" whatever you want to, but in reality that does not confer any credibility whatsoever to what you believe.

I have seen children from the same family receive the same treatment from the same parents and yet turn out to be totally opposite from each other. How can that be?

. . . Parents can guide children in the early years, but then people create themselves and their lives by their own choices. Good or bad.

FG ,

Not to color the world...imperfect, but it it quite literally impossible to treat all
Children the same. Even within the same family. No two human relationships are alike. Not all lessons are taught the same to every child, different discussions occur between different kids. So, even in the same nuclear unit , it is quite impossible to treat everyone the same , or to even love them the same way.
Everyone has a child that needs a little bit more attention than the other/s.
This is a differing dynamic between two separate relationships with
resources (time ,love etc) being allocated in disproportionate rates, regardless of how diligently you attempt to be "fair and equal".

How this and other dynamics are perceived through the prism of the beholders eye is entirely subjective to the unique dynamic of each family
Unit. As are the effects of such unintentional Inequity .

As a father , I have had moments where I realized that I was being more available to one child over another. Wether due to
Scheduling or illness or lending my assistance with school projects and such.
I think most parents have had moments like this as well.
The best we can do is our "best we can do".

Ultimately , it is my charge and my duty to guide and influence my children with
All of the love, skill and luck I can muster to produce a better human than myself. I DO take full responsibility for the actions of my offspring.. As I have had a major role in shaping who they are and.... HOW THEY ACT!

Thanks for reading.

[JD Barleycorn]

You see that is the problem. According to the Obama and Clinton administration the M-1 Garand is an assault rifle. People are currently serving time for trying to bring some back into the country of their manufacture. The M-1 has a bayonet lug, it is semi-automatic, and there are versions that have been produced in automatic versions (Italian BM-59 for one). Same with the M-1 Carbine; it is semi-automatic, holds over 10 rounds, has a bayonet lug, has been produced with either a pistol grip or folding stock, and was produced in a full auto version. According to the federal assault weapons ban any of the three of a list of ten qualifies a weapon as an assault weapon.

I don't know what Biggen was reading but I didn't say there any assualt weapons ban currently in affect. I was talking about the previous ban. I will try to use smaller words next time. Oh, the rifle that Lanza was carrying was not an assault rifle. It was a semi-automatic rifle patterned after the M-16 assault rifle.

[Munchmasterman]

Originally Posted by JD Barleycorn

More importantly, guns that the government has called assault weapons (like my Garand) have become targets of the gun grabbing crowd which telegraphs their real intents. Yes, the venerable old war hero the M-1 Garand is an assault rifle by the standard of the 1995 Assault Weapons Ban..

Wrong about 2 things.
A standard M-1 Garand is not an assault rifle.
And the Assault Weapons Ban bill was signed by Pres. Clinton in Sept. 1994.

Originally Posted by JD Barleycorn

You see that is the problem. According to the Obama and Clinton administration the M-1 Garand is an assault rifle. People are currently serving time for trying to bring some back into the country of their manufacture. The M-1 has a bayonet lug, it is semi-automatic, and there are versions that have been produced in automatic versions (Italian BM-59 for one). Same with the M-1 Carbine; it is semi-automatic, holds over 10 rounds, has a bayonet lug, has been produced with either a pistol grip or folding stock, and was produced in a full auto version. According to the federal assault weapons ban any of the three of a list of ten qualifies a weapon as an assault weapon.
.

The real problem here is that you are wrong again. Several times.


Like I said, a standard M-1 Garand is not considered and was not considered an assault rifle by the assault weapon ban.


A semi-automatic rifle has to have 2 or more of a list of 5 attributes or features that make it an assault rifle. It has one of those features. A bayonet lug. Also, it only holds 8 rounds.


Your tale of people in jail is either anecdotal or bullshit as weapons produced pre-1994 were grand fathered in and legal to sell and to own. Or they are in jail for reasons other than the AWB of 1994.


Don't you do any research?


At least you were right about the M-1 carbine.

[Munchmasterman]

Originally Posted by JD Barleycorn

I don't know what Biggen was reading but I didn't say there any assualt weapons ban currently in affect. I was talking about the previous ban. I will try to use smaller words next time. Oh, the rifle that Lanza was carrying was not an assault rifle. It was a semi-automatic rifle patterned after the M-16 assault rifle.

You stupid fuck. It was a Bushmaster.


Available at Walmart.

It has a 1) Flash suppressor, 2) pistol grips, 3) telescoping stock, and 4) high capacity magazine.


A semi-automatic rifle is considered an assault rifle if it has 2 of 5 attributes. This rifle has 3 of 5 plus a high capacity magazine.


It is a fucking assault rifle, douche-bag!


Did you read that every person killed was shot more than 1 time?


"All the victims died from gunshot wounds and were struck more than once, according to H. Wayne Carver II, chief medical examiner for the state of Connecticut. "

http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/15/us/con...iref=obnetwork


You offend me in a fundamental way. The idea that you and cog are in mensa either totally destroys their reputation or tells us that you both cheated to get in.

[LexusLover]

Originally Posted by UB9IB6

Ultimately , it is my charge and my duty to guide and influence my children with All of the love, skill and luck I can muster to produce a better human than myself. I DO take full responsibility for the actions of my offspring.. As I have had a major role in shaping who they are and.... HOW THEY ACT!

First, obviously, not all parents perceive their role and function as you apparently do, and secondly, even many of those who do, recognize that somewhere along in the teen years some of their children begin to become influenced by peers and other sources of information, which begin to take priority over parental influences.

This board, and your presence on here, confirms that conclusion.

I doubt seriously your parents brought you up with the philosophy that participating in THIS hobby and engaging in activities and relationships consistent with those offered on this board was "right" and "healthy" for you, and that it was good for you to facilitate that community. But, may be they did!

After all, this shooter's mother purchased plenty of fire power and (apparently) body armour that fit her son and made them readily available for his use.

As you were raising your children, did you demonstrate to them that "hobbying" was a good thing?

[Randy4Candy]

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

Sure, we can have the TSA searching every car on every street corner, cameras and microphones on every light post watching and listening to our every move, drones with heat sensitive cameras looking inside our houses, smart TV's and smart phones chronicling our every breath, NSA monitors looking at all our electronic communication, and we'd be safe.

We wouldn't be America, but we'd be safe.

Ah, the same old Chicken Little, hair on fire rhetoric from our self-styled trendsetter - oh, ye of the 16 zillion posts. I love the way your mind works, er, malfunctions.

[i'va biggen]

Originally Posted by JD Barleycorn

You see that is the problem. According to the Obama and Clinton administration the M-1 Garand is an assault rifle. People are currently serving time for trying to bring some back into the country of their manufacture. The M-1 has a bayonet lug, it is semi-automatic, and there are versions that have been produced in automatic versions (Italian BM-59 for one). Same with the M-1 Carbine; it is semi-automatic, holds over 10 rounds, has a bayonet lug, has been produced with either a pistol grip or folding stock, and was produced in a full auto version. According to the federal assault weapons ban any of the three of a list of ten qualifies a weapon as an assault weapon.

I don't know what Biggen was reading but I didn't say there any assualt weapons ban currently in affect. I was talking about the previous ban. I will try to use smaller words next time. Oh, the rifle that Lanza was carrying was not an assault rifle. It was a semi-automatic rifle patterned after the M-16 assault rifle.

the way it was presented it looked like you thought the ban was still on.By the way WTF is the diff of a assault rifle and one manufactured with the same attributes as a M-16 If they both function the same.Just splitting hairs?

[UB9IB6]

Originally Posted by LexusLover

First, obviously, not all parents perceive their role and function as you apparently do, and secondly, even many of those who do, recognize that somewhere along in the teen years some of their children begin to become influenced by peers and other sources of information, which begin to take priority over parental influences.

This board, and your presence on here, confirms that conclusion.

I doubt seriously your parents brought you up with the philosophy that participating in THIS hobby and engaging in activities and relationships consistent with those offered on this board was "right" and "healthy" for you, and that it was good for you to facilitate that community. But, may be they did!

After all, this shooter's mother purchased plenty of fire power and (apparently) body armour that fit her son and made them readily available for his use.

As you were raising your children, did you demonstrate to them that "hobbying" was a good thing?

I don't and have never hobbied. I found this board quite by accident when doing research during the campaign. I didn't know a community like this even existed until then. I did find it entertaining and fascinating .. Hence, I'm here.

As far as peer pressure is concerned.... You have a point, but are not seeing another. That point is that we as parents have the obligation to provide our chdren with the tools and confidence to deal with these internal and external
pressures.

Every child and every situation is unique .. How they employ the tools we provide or neglect to provide has a great deal to do with work we put into
our children while WE are in the position to do so.
IMO

[LexusLover]

Originally Posted by UB9IB6

I don't and have never hobbied. Then I withdraw my comment as to you, but leave it as it may apply to anyone else. With an apology, if due.

....we as parents have the obligation to provide our chdren with the tools and confidence to deal with these internal and external pressures. And IMO most parents lack the "tools" or take the time to meet that obligation.

For a long time I have believed that our school districts should include the care and nurturing of children in the curriculum at 6-8 grade levels and could even include a "nursery" for school district staff and employees to place their children on a reduced fare to expose both sexes at an early age to the task, responsiblity, and obligation (not to mention the frustration and skills) to parent children. Two beneifits: they may realize it is not "fun" and "glamorous" all the time and there by prevent some pregnancies that are done because it is "cool" and educate them on taking care of the child or children they may have in the future. Prevent politics and "agendas" from infesting the programs. (I was required to take a "Homemaking class" for one six-week period in junior high, but it had little to do with raising kids, and nothing to do with preventing them ... our health class was focused on preventing STD's as opposed to pregnancies.)

We have too many children born to parents that don't even like each other, will not marry or live with each other, and are lacking in the basic skills to guide a child to maturity and being a responsible, civilized adult. A lot of it is common sense, but "we" don't teach that in our contemporary school systems .... apparently.

As to a government imposed solution, legislation is not an effective "tool" for modifying "values."

[Munchmasterman]

The more time you spend with your kids watching TV, movies, reading etc, in other words being available to explain and to put into perspective the input it seems there is less and less control of, the better off the kids will be.
After going through a divorce, many things change. For the kids it meant they had 4 parents show up at their performances or athletic events. We all (the parents) did our best to keep fights to a minimum.
As far as hobbying goes, I never considered it while married. And while I've never been really comfortable with it, it was interesting while I was unattached. That's changed now. Since I work nights I still like to butt heads with the wack pack.
Whether or not hobbying is a "good" thing depends on your point of view. I'm not going judge others who are patrons of the world's oldest profession.
My particapation in the game is none of their business. One of my daughters is an engineer and the other is an attorney. They turned out just fine.

Originally Posted by LexusLover

First, obviously, not all parents perceive their role and function as you apparently do, and secondly, even many of those who do, recognize that somewhere along in the teen years some of their children begin to become influenced by peers and other sources of information, which begin to take priority over parental influences.

This board, and your presence on here, confirms that conclusion.

I doubt seriously your parents brought you up with the philosophy that participating in THIS hobby and engaging in activities and relationships consistent with those offered on this board was "right" and "healthy" for you, and that it was good for you to facilitate that community. But, may be they did!

After all, this shooter's mother purchased plenty of fire power and (apparently) body armour that fit her son and made them readily available for his use.

As you were raising your children, did you demonstrate to them that "hobbying" was a good thing?

[LexusLover]

Originally Posted by Munchmasterman

My particapation in the game is none of their business.

And, this is not directed at you, because I obviously don't know your family dynamics and that is none of my business, but ....

.. if what you do is none of theirs, what they do is none of yours.

Had the shooter in Connecticut had parents like your daughters he may have turned out like them, as a professional, as opposed to being a headline footnote. Unfortunately, we cannot evaluate our society's parenting skills on isolated examples of successes .... just like any other evaluation process. We have to look at "our" big picture and grade those results ... and in the past 40 years or so .. it's been shabby.

And, don't get me wrong, I'm not exaluating negatively on the basis of isolated examples, either. The shooter's Mom is the product of the parenting in the "past 40 or so" years!

[JD Barleycorn]

You are intentionally confusing the two definitions; the Clinton government defintion and the US military definition numb nuts. For the definition for a minute just tell me what an assault weapon is? What is it's purpose?

As for the Garand question again; I never brought up magazine capacity because that not important as the US government used the semiautomatic function as one of the qualifiers and not the number of rounds. The M-1 has a bayonet lug. That's two but it really took three. The Italians produced a weapon called the BM-59 which used the M-1 Garand as a platform. It was fully automatic. It also had a detachable magazine so you could say that it was more like an M-14 but the government took certain liberties with the definition as the M-14 was derived from the M-1 Garand. So that is three.