Does the intelligent business woman "exploit" a crisis?

[Aonegonexx]

Originally Posted by BLM69

From my experience, the hoe market is similar to price line, some pay more $ and others pay less $ for the same flight, bring in all the different airlines into play and you really have options

Its more like Macys vs Walmart vs Dollar Store vs mom-pop stores. In general when economy goes down Walmart and Dollar Store do better than Macys, doesnt mean Macys has no customers....foot traffic pattern changes. You would see price changes, sales and discounts across the board. Mom-Pop of course play by the weather forecast for their specific block.

[Pangolier]

Originally Posted by B.Wayne

The point to all that, was she believes she is worth it. It could be a mental punch to the gut if people arent paying the price she thinks shes worth. based on the description she seems as though she is trying to be an entrepreneur but going about it the wrong way. Look at hotels, if a convention is in town the raise the rates. By the weekend rates are back to lower normal. The limited higher rates are for out of towners. while locals wait for the weekend, when they know rates are lower.

Interesting thought. I've observed numerous girl who have the mentality that they are a "high class" provider and frankly the best thing since sliced bread; the way they describe themselves as a "luxury top model" even though there's no evidence to support they ever modeled for anyone. The question is: will they let that level of arrogance interference with their finances when it comes to paying their monthly cost of living? My guess is no, they won't, but they will keep that delusion alive as long as they are making "enough" money to get by, even if it's not as much money as they would prefer to be making. Changing a mind of pride is an incredibly difficult thing to do; way more difficult than quitting smoking for example. Never really took that factor into account, thought it was driven way more by the ramifications of Covid. Because this arrogant mindset was going on way way prior to Dec 2019 when Covid first appeared in China.

[B.Wayne]

very true. ive seen girls not think much of themselves, had normal insecurities about themselves, only to have more confidence when they realized guys were paying them to bang. some do let it go to their heads. Some are just flat out arrogant and honestly i wonder if some are just as insecure but believe its all about the appearance. If they put it out there and collect the money then maybe they start to believe their own hype and then live it. fake it til you make it, so to speak. i think its about perception. Some girls just flat out think they are the greatest thing ever and if others dont agree they dont have time for them, and only want to focus on their supporters. It certainly doesnt help when there are places like onlyfans where they can get paid for doing nothing but being in front of a computer camera. maybe flash a nipple and people tipping for it. that is as insane to me as the girls thinking they are top model elite status in their head, but reality is far from it. But, many of the self proclaimed elite providers would have you believe that an experience with them at 1000 is no way the same as if they were at 300. They got to sell the lie. well, i aint buyin.



I think there could possibly be a.... ill call it 'the big stall' where people that got some extra money to spend arent going to let it go as easy based on garbage service in any industry, and the people wanting to offer services and wanting as much money as possible for as little work or effort as possible. when the buyers wont budge and the sellers wont budge. its a mexican stand off. sooner or later, someone is going to have to budge. it will start out with a measly 5 percent off, then the buyer shakes his head, nah brah ill wait it out, then it goes down a little more, but little by little until prices even out, but the question is, what is the magic number that both parties can accept? will it be slightly higher than before? or will it be what is been in the past? its interesting to watch play out. . As long as nobody is buying at the discounts.

in these times, self control is gold.

Originally Posted by Pangolier

Interesting thought. I've observed numerous girl who have the mentality that they are a "high class" provider and frankly the best thing since sliced bread; the way they describe themselves as a "luxury top model" even though there's no evidence to support they ever modeled for anyone. The question is: will they let that level of arrogance interference with their finances when it comes to paying their monthly cost of living? My guess is no, they won't, but they will keep that delusion alive as long as they are making "enough" money to get by, even if it's not as much money as they would prefer to be making. Changing a mind of pride is an incredibly difficult thing to do; way more difficult than quitting smoking for example. Never really took that factor into account, thought it was driven way more by the ramifications of Covid. Because this arrogant mindset was going on way way prior to Dec 2019 when Covid first appeared in China.

[BLM69]

Exploit is probably the wrong word to describe what's going on, You guy's have to think about the hobby just like any other industry, if you guys walk into a high end mall for example (hobby websites) expect to pay high end Mall pricing, by the time the merchandise arrives there from the warehouse, you're already paying a premium

Guy's need to learn how to find other options, you guy's put yourself in this fish bowl full of piranhas, what else do you expect them to do? Learn how to fish other places so you guys don't starve..... I'm able to play as much as I want and have many options, I learned this game many years ago and have a vessel with large nets 😂

[Pangolier]

Originally Posted by B.Wayne

very true. ive seen girls not think much of themselves, had normal insecurities about themselves, only to have more confidence when they realized guys were paying them to bang. some do let it go to their heads. Some are just flat out arrogant and honestly i wonder if some are just as insecure but believe its all about the appearance. If they put it out there and collect the money then maybe they start to believe their own hype and then live it. fake it til you make it, so to speak. i think its about perception. Some girls just flat out think they are the greatest thing ever and if others dont agree they dont have time for them, and only want to focus on their supporters. It certainly doesnt help when there are places like onlyfans where they can get paid for doing nothing but being in front of a computer camera. maybe flash a nipple and people tipping for it. that is as insane to me as the girls thinking they are top model elite status in their head, but reality is far from it. But, many of the self proclaimed elite providers would have you believe that an experience with them at 1000 is no way the same as if they were at 300. They got to sell the lie. well, i aint buyin.



I think there could possibly be a.... ill call it 'the big stall' where people that got some extra money to spend arent going to let it go as easy based on garbage service in any industry, and the people wanting to offer services and wanting as much money as possible for as little work or effort as possible. when the buyers wont budge and the sellers wont budge. its a mexican stand off. sooner or later, someone is going to have to budge. it will start out with a measly 5 percent off, then the buyer shakes his head, nah brah ill wait it out, then it goes down a little more, but little by little until prices even out, but the question is, what is the magic number that both parties can accept? will it be slightly higher than before? or will it be what is been in the past? its interesting to watch play out. . As long as nobody is buying at the discounts.

in these times, self control is gold.

There were sites more than decade ago prior to only fans; however the girls that were using them weren't the same. Many of the sites were run by porn companies, and it was usually the "open stars" instead of the more private prostitutes who were using them. The sites tended to be more expensive and were littered with scams, also bandwidth and video quality were issues at the time, and webcams and devices were more expensive.


I think only fans exploded not just due to the technological advances, but because of Covid. People living at home in isolation and trying to find new ways of making money.


I think the issue at hand is the same one it's always been: I got back from the SHOT Show in Vegas around 2011 in my home city at the time, only to see another air traveler on the same flight grabbing his luggage at the terminal claim. He had one of the Adult Entertainment Expo bags in his hand. I looked and him and felt confident he wasn't getting what he really wanted... which was sex with a pretty girl. Instead he probably paid thousands of dollars on a flight and hotel room, then an additional few hundred on entry tickets to grab an autograph from some porn star at the show, which was probably stuffed in that bag he was holding.


Unfortunately I think this is the same kind of person who would pay for only fans. Now granted some guys might do this because they realize there is danger involved in patronizing prostitutes, not the least of which could be getting arrested or robbed, so I'm sure some guys don't do it based on that fact alone. But I think the sad truth is there are many other guys who won't see prostitutes either because they haven't developed sufficient social mechanisms to interact with girls confidentially, or may have a psychological disorder. This is the image a lot of people would paint of "the guy living in his mom's basement", though I do not seek to criticize these people.


I can't imagine anyone who has had generally good experience with prostitutes then going on later on life to sign up for only fans and paying money just to watch girls nude; that doesn't make any sense to me at all. On that note, there's plenty of free porn out there, though much if it is illegal due to copyright violation. But people watch it incessantly anyhow. I think the difference is I might go watch porn once a blue moon if it's late at night and I'm horny. Whereas I think only fans tends to be more for people who want to "connect" with a SPECIFIC girl they leaning towards an obsession with, not just watch some random pretty girl they know little about or don't even know their stage name.



I just think only fans has gained notoriety and opened up doors for alot more guys who probably would have done this earlier had they known about it, and maybe girls who had tendency towards prostitution; strippers for example who do it on a pole in a club are now doing it in front of a camera.


If we are indeed in a Mexican Stand Off, it's taking way too long for the pot to dry out. There has to be a lot of money at stake, and since this has been going on 2 years now, I'm starting to lose my patience. You are right, self control is king, eh?


The only other indicator would point to this line of business becoming the domain of the rich and famous only. Your Eliot Spitzer's for example. Not only was that bastard a politician, but he had zounds of excess money to go with his dirty job. I certainly don't want to see that happen to this line of work!

[Grace Preston]

Ok-- as someone who has worked as a camgirl along with this for far longer than the pandemic (first turned on the live cam in 2013)... let me say this.


In general-- the guys who participate in live cam shows are NOT the same guys who participate in the hobby. For the most part, they are the type that like to FANTASIZE about being with the girl on the other side of the screen, but are too chicken to actually seek out services. And the flip side is-- most of the clientele in the hobby doesn't have as much interest in webcam shows... because fuck it, they can get the real thing.


However-- OF is the first real display of bleed I've seen between the two worlds. I know a lot of ladies who never had the patience for camming who are now on OF-- I know a lot of clients who are subscribed to a few OF.



I don't know where things are headed, to be honest. I've been doing both for such a long time (but interestingly, I don't have an OF-- I despise the owner and find him to be dishonest as fuck, but that's another story for another time) I think the next year of the hobbyverse will be interesting.

[BLM69]

I was just watching a podcast where this younger hot chick makes 200k a month on OF, that's on another level and she doesn't have to turn any tricks, there's others with bigger followings that make more $

[Pangolier]

Originally Posted by BLM69

I was just watching a podcast where this younger hot chick makes 200k a month on OF, that's on another level and she doesn't have to turn any tricks, there's others with bigger followings that make more $

And there's reason why everyone can't do that. You are not a farmer, doctor, or trucker. Well, I don't know what your occupation, but I shall assume you are not one of those. Without stock clerks and cashiers at the grocery store, you won't be getting your food. And without truckers the food won't be delivered. And without electricians your power goes out, and without the port authority goods would never make it past customs.


There's only so many people that can be pulled out of the production line that keeps us alive and dependent on each other, which is why not everyone can be a full time day trader. Those companies like Amazon that are worth trillions of dollars in market cap are run by people, outside of the machines. If all of those people were spending 8 hours a day trading Amazon stock it would go to 0 in a matter of months because Amazon would crumble without it's employees to run it, and become worth nothing due to being non operational and not profitable.


Same goes for for these "gigs" like porn stars that people are making millions off of. A few people will be able to do it... but it's not something that everyone will be able to do. The interesting thing is... many of these "entrepreneurs" seem to have a habit of convincing a population of over 7 billion that every single last person can do what they do. Now... what kind of intelligent business person would knowingly invite competition to their business? Tut tut!


As a side note, sometimes these people dry out and lose their fortune. You can always check back 5 or 10 years later and see "what happened" to them.

[Grace Preston]

Originally Posted by Pangolier

And there's reason why everyone can't do that. You are not a farmer, doctor, or trucker. Well, I don't know what your occupation, but I shall assume you are not one of those. Without stock clerks and cashiers at the grocery store, you won't be getting your food. And without truckers the food won't be delivered. And without electricians your power goes out, and without the port authority goods would never make it past customs.


There's only so many people that can be pulled out of the production line that keeps us alive and dependent on each other, which is why not everyone can be a full time day trader. Those companies like Amazon that are worth trillions of dollars in market cap are run by people, outside of the machines. If all of those people were spending 8 hours a day trading Amazon stock it would go to 0 in a matter of months because Amazon would crumble without it's employees to run it, and become worth nothing due to being non operational and not profitable.


Same goes for for these "gigs" like porn stars that people are making millions off of. A few people will be able to do it... but it's not something that everyone will be able to do. The interesting thing is... many of these "entrepreneurs" seem to have a habit of convincing a population of over 7 billion that every single last person can do what they do. Now... what kind of intelligent business person would knowingly invite competition to their business? Tut tut!


As a side note, sometimes these people dry out and lose their fortune. You can always check back 5 or 10 years later and see "what happened" to them.

Yup. Same goes for camming. You've got your Top 1% that makes 7 and sometimes 8 figures a year. You've got about 20% that makes 6 figures. You've got another 30% that makes at least 50k a year... then the remaining 50% are all scrambling for the scraps.

[B.Wayne]

I work with a guy who informed me his niece has an Of. He said her mom threatened to kick her out because she wouldn’t pay her any rent. He said she told her mom she makes about 45k “working” 3 maybe 4 days a week. Said If she needs more money she just “works” a little longer or an extra day here and there. He said the mom found out cause daughter had all this stuff she was buying and not paying rent and mom asked where she got the money From. 45k all from the comfort of her own home. But when the tax man comes knocking, that will be a cam show I would pay to see.

Originally Posted by BLM69

I was just watching a podcast where this younger hot chick makes 200k a month on OF, that's on another level and she doesn't have to turn any tricks, there's others with bigger followings that make more $

[BLM69]

Originally Posted by B.Wayne

I work with a guy who informed me his niece has an Of. He said her mom threatened to kick her out because she wouldn’t pay her any rent. He said she told her mom she makes about 45k “working” 3 maybe 4 days a week. Said If she needs more money she just “works” a little longer or an extra day here and there. He said the mom found out cause daughter had all this stuff she was buying and not paying rent and mom asked where she got the money From. 45k all from the comfort of her own home. But when the tax man comes knocking, that will be a cam show I would pay to see.

Little whore is gonna make more $ if she keeps it up, Mom's better not look to see what her daughter is doing to make that $

[tiger2me]

Originally Posted by BLM69

That maybe in real state, the hoe game has no structure or rules

Shopping clients will get the most pussy for the buck. So prices that are too high will get less business. Quality service does get a premium price.

[oldbutstillgoing]

This is a doomed conversation. You are trying to reason as men with women. Never going to work in the broad scheme of things

[Pangolier]

Originally Posted by oldbutstillgoing

You are trying to reason as men with women. Never going to work in the broad scheme of things

Ha ha ha! What you are saying is generally very much true.... I can think of several specific examples from past experience.

[oldbutstillgoing]

Also, I fundamentally disagree that this industry is like no other. When it comes to pricing, Other than the product sold, this is no different than any other industry where the providers of services are generally independent contractors. Having been an independent contractor in a service industry for 18 years, I know very well factors that justify specific rates.

Supply and demand
Level and consistency of services provided
The general condition of the economy
Effective marketing to build the perception of higher skill that allows higher rates.
Costs of goods sold IE: what does it cost to deliver a product.
Inflation impacting cost of living
And more

I can directly control #1 and #3. The rest not so much.
I like most companies, will eat my cost increases as long as I can. But when the higher cost of doing business reduces my profit to the point I no longer meet my financial goals, then I either raise my rates or find ways to reduce my costs or both.

I make about $45 an hour more than I did 18 years ago. And I still have my very first customer. If I gain better skills, I rase my rates to where I want to be versus my competitors. If the over all market rates go up,I raise mine to remain where I want to be compared to my competitors. If there is a flood of new talent at lower rates,I maintain my rates by either doing better at #3 or developing new skills or both.

Every time I rase my rates, I chance loosing customers more Interested in price than quality. And I always seem to find better customers who care more about quality and skills.

I have enough repeat customers, I now work as much or little as I want. I get enough referrals from existing customers to replace those few that drop off.

The issue for many is this is a very personal industry due to the prod sold. No one likes higher prices,but few will object to getting more for what they do.

As as WEC is so happy to point out, if prices goes up and quality goes down, the seller will suffer. But that has been the norm in my experience