$5 a gallon

[Salty Again]

... ... Oranges poranges and apples to watermelons.

WE DON'T BELIEVE YOU.

#### Salty

[HDGristle]

I don't care if you don't believe me, Salty.

Not one of you has mentioned the Jones Act or other laws and their impact on oil and gas. You've focused on XL but not on the lack of any strategic pipelines to connect GC refined product to the East Coast or the challenges that carve up what oil and petrochemical products go where they go.

It's just Biden, bad. More U.S. gas Nao!!!. Energy independence Nao!!! ANWR Nao!!

If you all really wanted to have a convo about this instead of just spouting talking points and not talk about context you'd find some common ground exists on things where you get what you want and I get what I want.

I'm literally giving you AFPM links to mine

[Devo]

We have a friend who was in charge of the development of a major pipeline on the east coast, intent was to make Northeast natural gas available down to Florida.

They were met with total resistance from every state, county, and town they dealt with.

Anyone associated with the potential development was harrassed, refused to be served in restaraunts, threatened, they had to hide who they were everywhere they went.

Pipelines are only going to be built if authorized as part of insterstate commerce, and done by the Federal government.

Its time we develop an interstate energy system, just like the highways.

Everything government does seems to hurt the people, at least when its a Dem government.

[Salty Again]

DRILL BABY DRILL! ...

### Salty

[HDGristle]

Originally Posted by Salty Again

DRILL BABY DRILL! ...

### Salty

As expected

[berryberry]

Los Angeles - but let the libtards keep up their charade defending Senile Biden

[chizzy]

You know, I'm no einstein, I dont have a PhD although some of the dumbest people I know do, I simply use common sense and logical when determining my thoughts and opinion

So some here are blaming biden and his policies for the gas prices and inflation and so on... some here defend the democrats and suggest this has nothing to do with it

Well, common sense tells you there are two things.... consumers and producers
If you rely on someone else for what u need especially vital things such as oil food and so on, u r a consumer and are at the mercy of the producers or those who have what you want.

Here lies the problem.. the us used to be virtually self efficient in almost every aspect...not so now. We have turned into the consumer not the producer in many areas..

I could write a novel right now on various things this is true on but in terms of oil.....
Seems to me if biden is and make no mistake he is down grading our oil production, that puts us at the mercy of others....
I get it, the eco groups and liberals want green this and green that, so what? Nothing wrong with looking into these things but do it the right way.
You continue producing and using what you have and at the same time explore, invest in green info want. But my god u dont shut down or hinder what u do have at the same time.

Common sense is something this administration does not have and unfortunately many people do not either

[onawbtngr546]

Right now, at least in this year, the last thing the US needs to do is go hard on 'going green'. That'll cause incredibly short term pain for everyone that isn't already a millionaire.


Firstly, get energy independent. Stop importing so much stuff. I cringed at the later part of the state of the union, but this is something I agree with Biden. Import less, and once mostly self sufficient, then start on working green.


But regardless, no matter how cheap EVs are, they are NOT going to be viable until they have chargers as common as they have gas stations

[HDGristle]

Chizzy, these are good reads. Not current in terms of the Ukraine situation, but the fundamental logic is sound.

https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/09/18...e-up-in-smoke/

https://www.forbes.com/sites/rrapier...h=4ac407171387

https://www.deccanherald.com/interna...et-792693.html

[DrivesAllDay]

Originally Posted by onawbtngr546

Right now, at least in this year, the last thing the US needs to do is go hard on 'going green'. That'll cause incredibly short term pain for everyone that isn't already a millionaire.


Firstly, get energy independent. Stop importing so much stuff. I cringed at the later part of the state of the union, but this is something I agree with Biden. Import less, and once mostly self sufficient, then start on working green.


But regardless, no matter how cheap EVs are, they are NOT going to be viable until they have chargers as common as they have gas stations

I agree! I don't "hate" EVs. I just dont think we have the infrastructure in place yet. Also, they wont really take off until I can get the same or better mileage . My lil' Chevy Sonic gets 390miles on a full tank. It takes me 5 minutes or less to fill the tank (12.2 gallons). There's no way I'm waiting 15-30 minutes or 8 hours for a full charge. Plus, I did not have to pay $60K for the car. Can anyone buy a used EV for under $15,000 and not expect to have a reduction in mileage or having to replace the battery?

Right now, I can drive to any small, rural, out-of-the-way podunk town & get gas.

Then there's the problem with electricity rates. Sure, its cheap. NOW. Once the majority go EV, will rates go up? Will I be charged a mileage tax? Will the truck companies delivering goods be passing along those costs? Same for taxis, Uber, etc.

[HDGristle]

Drives, that why gas isn't going anywhere for awhile. That's also why the next decade needs to be focused on energy resilience and infrasructure with a moonshot investment in battery storage and microgrids.

That's where we'll find legitimate energy independence. There will still be a need and a place for petrochemicals and gas. Not just pretending that being a net exporter of oil means we've hit the mark or are suddenly immune.

One can't say with a straight face that they're energy independent and be reliant on bringing in oil Canadian tar sands to feed the heavy oil refineries. It's about production for sure... but also consumption. You need to produce more than you consume, not just more than you import.

[onawbtngr546]

Unless there is some kind of breakthrough with battery tech in the next 20 years, it is still going to take multiple hours for a full charge. Take cell phones for example. They can not improve anymore, basically, with regards to charging. 0-60% can be done quickly for a phone, under half an hour. The upper 40% takes longer just because of the nature of the battery.


What needs to be focused on is energy density. You'll need to top off on longer trips, but shorter trips would still be viable two way without charging.



Also, once we move fully to renewables (hydro, wind, solar), or even fully nuclear (or if you want to be optimistic, instead of fission, fusion finally becomes viable), the cost of energy will be cheap. The the only thing you need to think about is the power grid infra and how much electrons you can store in your car.


If you want to even go out on another limb and imagine the perfect future of technology, roads would be filled with solar cells, and have inductive charging built in so your battery wireless recharges on the road. But that is really taking a step forward and I don't see anything like this happening for at least a century.

[HDGristle]

Agreed, except you'll need a hedge against the downsides of the renewables. Nuclear's role is as the stable hedge that helps balance the grid

[DrivesAllDay]

Originally Posted by HDGristle

Agreed, except you'll need a hedge against the downsides of the renewables. Nuclear's role is as the stable hedge that helps balance the grid

Ah geez! If we gotta go to Nuclear, it'll never happen. The media & others, plus 3 Mile Island, Chernobyl, & Fukushima has everyone scared to death of nuclear power. Now, if we happen to discover fusion, that might change things for the better.

[bambino]

What happened to the hydrogen car?


https://www.popularmechanics.com/car...uel-cell-cars/