Our first 2012 Prez Poll

[pjorourke]

Originally Posted by pjorourke

No he isn't.

Originally Posted by Doove

Yes, he is.

Is there a new definition of "birther" among you Lefties? Does it now encompass anyone who disagrees with you? I thought a "birther" was someone who denied that Obama was native born. If I am misinformed, please educate me. Otherwise, I note again that Trump said he thought Obama was born in Hawaii and thus a native born American citizen as required by the Constitution.

[WTF]

Originally Posted by pjorourke

Is there a new definition of "birther" among you Lefties? Does it now encompass anyone who disagrees with you? I thought a "birther" was someone who denied that Obama was native born. If I am misinformed, please educate me. Otherwise, I note again that Trump said he thought Obama was born in Hawaii and thus a native born American citizen as required by the Constitution.

A birther, in my view , is any idiot that continues to want to see Obama's birth certificate because they think there is something to hide. Donald Trump falls into that category. He is stirring up idiotic passions and he is an idiot for doing so. WEll maybe not an idiot....he does have a show to promote!

[Whirlaway]

I think every candidate needs to prove their citizenship !

Obama didn't/hasn't !

[pjorourke]

Originally Posted by WTF

A birther, in my view , is any idiot!

So I can call you a "birther" now?

[charlestudor2005]

Originally Posted by Doove

He did release the damn thing 3 years ago. That is why this is so absolutely, insanely absurd. And anyone who thinks otherwise (PJ?) is a doofus!

Originally Posted by pjorourke

He did?
The national press corp must have missed that. Can you point me at a story about the release?

Actually, the national press corps had it. Since you are intent to be a birther, the SNOPES article proving you wrong can be found here: http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama...ertificate.asp. A picture of the certificate is attached below.

Originally Posted by pjorourke

Is there a new definition of "birther" among you Lefties? Does it now encompass anyone who disagrees with you? I thought a "birther" was someone who denied that Obama was native born. If I am misinformed, please educate me. Otherwise, I note again that Trump said he thought Obama was born in Hawaii and thus a native born American citizen as required by the Constitution.

No. My definition of a birther is one who continues to believe paranoia despite all evidence to the opposite. A rational person would change his/her mind based on the evidence presented. A birther (like the person who believes the landing on the moon was a conspiracy run by NASA) denies all rational evidence contrary to his OPINION.

The issue is a matter of FACT, not OPINION.

[WTF]

Originally Posted by pjorourke

So I can call you a "birther" now?

I could be called an idiot for believing in any number of things....a birther ain't one of them!

Birthers are akin to the folks that think Bush knew about 9/11 beforehand.

Originally Posted by Whirlaway

I think every candidate needs to prove their citizenship !

Originally Posted by Whirlaway

Obama didn't/hasn't !

We have more evidence that Obama was born in Hawaii than God's existence.

Do you believe in God?

[I B Hankering]

The ‘birther’ argument is ridiculous. Obama’s mother was a U.S. citizen, and she could have given birth in the Kremlin with Nikita Khrushchev acting as mid-wife and Obama, by virtue of his parentage, would still be a U.S. citizen. Until someone can prove he renounced his citizenship, everyone must accept him as a U.S. citizen.

U.S.C. § 1401
U.S. Code TITLE 8 > CHAPTER 12 > SUBCHAPTER III > Part I >
§ 1401. Nationals and citizens of United States at birth

The following shall be nationals and citizens of the United States at birth:

(g) a person born outside the geographical limits of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents one of whom is an alien, and the other a citizen of the United States who, prior to the birth of such person, was physically present in the United States or its outlying possessions for a period or periods totaling not less than five years, at least two of which were after attaining the age of fourteen years (this applies to his mother).

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/8/1401.html

The U.S. recognizes dual citizenship. Even if Obama claimed to be a Kenyan citizen (which he doesn't - at least not publically - lol), he must still renounce his U.S. citizenship to be declared a non-citizen, or, while in the pay of a foreign government, commit treason against the U.S. The U.S. usually expatriates only those traitors it cannot incarcerate because the traitor is outside both the jurisdiction of U.S. law enforcement and other states which choose to enforce U.S. law.

More on Obama's birth certificate at:

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2...n_the_usa.html

[pjorourke]

Originally Posted by charlestudor2005

Actually, the national press corps had it. Since you are intent to be a birther, the SNOPES article proving you wrong can be found here: http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama...ertificate.asp.

I'm not a birther -- I always thought the concept was absurd -- as I.B. noted, as long as the mother was an American citizen, so is he. I was just clarifying what Trump said.

I'd never heard that the certificate had been released --- I thought he hadn't released it. So why is this issue still floating around? Why didn't the View crowd present this to Trump when he was on the air?

[Whirlaway]

Why is the certificate number deleted?

And how come the Governor of Hawaii admitted he can't find the relevant document recording Obama's birth?

[WTF]

Originally Posted by pjorourke

I'm not a birther -- I always thought the concept was absurd -- as I.B. noted, as long as the mother was an American citizen, so is he. I was just clarifying what Trump said.

I'd never heard that the certificate had been released --- I thought he hadn't released it. So why is this issue still floating around? Why didn't the View crowd present this to Trump when he was on the air?

Donald is bringing it up....if he were to say what you just said then it would not be an issue. "I'm not a birther -- I always thought the concept was absurd --"

He has made it an issue.

As charles noted, if he wants the votes of the staged moon landing crowd, he should bring up that issue too!

Trump is fucking his cousin on this issue and no amount of clearing up wtf he said/believes will clean him up from his intent. Which is to srir up these idiotic emotions.

[charlestudor2005]

Originally Posted by Whirlaway

Why is the certificate number deleted?

And how come the Governor of Hawaii admitted he can't find the relevant document recording Obama's birth?

WAW--You could have looked this up just as I did, so here you go: from factcheck.org:

We asked the Obama campaign about the date stamp and the blacked-out certificate number. The certificate is stamped June 2007, because that's when Hawaii officials produced it for the campaign, which requested that document and "all the records we could get our hands on" according to spokesperson Shauna Daly. The campaign didn't release its copy until 2008, after speculation began to appear on the Internet questioning Obama's citizenship. The campaign then rushed to release the document, and the rush is responsible for the blacked-out certificate number. Says Shauna: "[We] couldn't get someone on the phone in Hawaii to tell us whether the number represented some secret information, and we erred on the side of blacking it out. Since then we've found out it's pretty irrelevant for the outside world." The document we looked at did have a certificate number; it is 151 1961 - 010641.

Here is another pic:

[Whirlaway]

Ok; Now how about his grades from Harvard?

[Rudyard K]

Originally Posted by pjorourke

So why is this issue still floating around? Why didn't the View crowd present this to Trump when he was on the air?

All in all, I think the issue is still floating around because some people want to believe it. It gets fostered by the fact that the "birth certificate" produced doesn't really look like a birth certificate I've ever seen. But maybe that's just what Hawaii's certificates look like.

If you look at my birth certificate, it appears to be a photocopy of an original document signed contemporaneuosly at the time of my birth. That's not what his looks like. I might have, in a file somewhere that my mama set aside, one of those other kind of certificates that even has the little feet stamps in the corner. But I'd be hard pressed to find it. I've seen my county certificate though...and it looks like a photocopy, with the signatures on it from whomever signed it on the day of my birth.

If I needed a copy of my birth certificate, I'd go to the county of my birth, and pay the certified copy fee, and get one. I'm guessing that is what they did to get the one shown. I have to admit though, that the one shown by OB does not look like a contemporaneuos document at the time of his birth...it looks like a certification, produced today, of the birth records. But that may be be all they have.

[pjorourke]

Originally Posted by Rudyard K

If you look at my birth certificate, it appears to be a photocopy of an original document signed contemporaneuosly at the time of my birth. That's not what his looks like. I might have, in a file somewhere that my mama set aside, one of those other kind of certificates that even has the little feet stamps in the corner. But I'd be hard pressed to find it. I've seen my county certificate though...and it looks like a photocopy, with the signatures on it from whomever signed it on the day of my birth.

It does look like what they are producing now. Same with marriage licenses. All that stuff is being digitized. I also have one of the old photocopy ones, but most government agencies won't take it anymore. They want the new ones that are harder to tamper with.

[Whirlaway]

It's a scam as old as the hills; get a couple of corrupt Hawaiian bureacrats (i.e. Democrats) to make a fake.

Where is his 1st grade teacher talking about remembering him in class?

Or, how about a neighbor that remembers him playing in the hood?